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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039472 times)
sbfree
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October 13, 2013, 11:40:52 AM
 #15441

BITCOINORAMA, since it seems you are the UNOFFICIAL KNC rep, and I think some of us here on the forum also find you are OUR UNOFFICIAL rep as well....

from reading the posts here, it seems alot of us are disheartened at the state of things. Most are appreciative of the feat the has been accomplished and are glad to be a part of this event. All of KNC customers have invested their BTC/money under certain terms of conditions, both verbal and written. Yes we all understand this is a 'prototype' machine and that 'Murphy's Law' does exist as well. Unfortunately, KNC's somewhat lack of communication, change of terms and time delays with no explanation has created disenchantment with the whole process.
As time ticks by, some of us are watching our reasons for having invested in KNC go by BLOCK BY BLOCK, and this event has only been fruitful for the select few who ordered early.

Although KNC ultimately holds all the cards, we the customers hold KNC's reputation. At some point, KNC should understand our frustrations and consider us as investors in their endeavor, and as such, KNC should compensate some of us who are losing this race against time without sacrificing KNC's ability to survive as a company.

Clearly late Day 1 or Day 2 orders should have some sort of compensation, and those that paid subsequently might be compensated thereafter up to a certain date that corresponds to Oct 15 sales/ Nov sales. Meaning if you purchased OCT/NOV delivery dates and receive product on time or very shortly thereafter are not included. But if you paid in say June/early July, these orders most likely expected delivery dates shortly after Day 1 and Day 2.

I for one ordered June 18th and paid that day. Lets say it took a week to process my order. I still placed and paid my order in JUNE expecting "end of summer", then "end of September" delivery for DAY 1/2, so 1 figured I week and no more than 10 days after that I should be mining.  In my eyes, I consider my order 3 days late and counting.

I for one would be ok with hashing power that can be pro rated based on days late vs. difficulty change, or even something where we spend more money/btc, but get compensated as well....that way KNC still makes sales...something that works for all....fair for the early early investors/miners who are currently mining, something that works for those early investors (early/mid June- Mid July??) that are NOT MINING RIGHT NOW but paid the same and have waited just about the same as those DAy1/DAY2 that are mining....

anyhow BITCOINORAMA, it seems that you are THE VOICE....
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October 13, 2013, 11:44:04 AM
 #15442

BITCOINORAMA, since it seems you are the UNOFFICIAL KNC rep, and I think some of us here on the forum also find you are OUR UNOFFICIAL rep as well....

<snip>

anyhow BITCOINORAMA, it seems that you are THE VOICE....

If you are going to repost that every 30 minutes I may have to ignore you :p

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October 13, 2013, 11:48:02 AM
 #15443

BITCOINORAMA, since it seems you are the UNOFFICIAL KNC rep, and I think some of us here on the forum also find you are OUR UNOFFICIAL rep as well....

<snip>

anyhow BITCOINORAMA, it seems that you are THE VOICE....

If you are going to repost that every 30 minutes I may have to ignore you :p
sorry biffa, won't happen again.....
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October 13, 2013, 11:50:13 AM
 #15444

If this is just a firmware issue, then KNC probably were running the lines anyway. So, I don't understand why they would be so far behind. They should have completed (or nearly completed) units ready for firmware installation.

The main question I now have is, perhaps this wasn't just a firmware issue. And if they identified it as a firmware in only the last few days or in the last week, then they still could have been (or are) running the assembly line.

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BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
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October 13, 2013, 12:06:27 PM
 #15445

Bitcoinorama:
I've been following your posts on Knc from the beginning, starting with the initial interview. I check the direct link to your posts before I check the general boards. That's how important you are here.

You seem like a really good guy, genuinely interested in Bitcoin and the btc economy and community and not just the money. And I know you trust the guys at Knc, they trust you, and you have a good relationship, and so on...but seriously, how far are you willing to go for these guys? It actually kinda hurts to see you coming under fire, and your integrity questioned.

The truth at the end of the day is that it's all about the result, and while KnC have put in a tremendous effort that's recognized by all, they're not delivering on a lot of counts. Shipping delays, boards catching on fire, voltage regulator cutbacks (8 to 4), firmware isssues ... the list goes on and on. It's like in football/soccer.. the team and manager can put in a great effort, pull out all the stops, but if at the end of the day they lose or get relegated, the fans are still unhappy, possibly even up in arms. And heads still roll, regardless of how hard they tried.

In all sincerity, can I suggest that you take a breather, have a pint, and consider just how much you're willing to give up for these guys? I think you should have a think about it, and be careful not to entangle/embroil yourself in something you wish you could get out of later but can't. You don't work for them, yet are going to great lengths to defend them and answer questions on their behalf. The truth is that THEY should be the ones trading exchanges with people on here and taking the heat, not you. I just don't want to see you turn into an Ineba-like figure and have your credibility and reputation comprimised or ruined altogether. That'd be a shame after the stellar shift you've put in - all on KnC's behalf.
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October 13, 2013, 12:10:15 PM
 #15446

300X Saturn order, paid July 11, in progress. Cool
364X Jupiter oder, paid July 15, in progress. Cool

One more week to ship?? Sad

Sh**!

Order #20xx paid june 12th, hosting, I have received neither account info to access my unit, nor compensation.

I've written two days ago to ask for info... no answer so far.

spiccioli
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October 13, 2013, 12:19:23 PM
 #15447

300X Saturn order, paid July 11, in progress. Cool
364X Jupiter oder, paid July 15, in progress. Cool

One more week to ship?? Sad

Sh**!

Order #20xx paid june 12th, hosting, I have received neither account info to access my unit, nor compensation.

I've written two days ago to ask for info... no answer so far.

spiccioli

glad to see a 20xx order is now hosted/mining??, sorry you can't get into your miner yet spic...this means my order isn't too far behind I hope!
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October 13, 2013, 12:25:04 PM
 #15448

300X Saturn order, paid July 11, in progress. Cool
364X Jupiter oder, paid July 15, in progress. Cool

One more week to ship?? Sad

Sh**!

Order #20xx paid june 12th, hosting, I have received neither account info to access my unit, nor compensation.

I've written two days ago to ask for info... no answer so far.

spiccioli

glad to see a 20xx order is now hosted/mining??, sorry you can't get into your miner yet spic...this means my order isn't too far behind I hope!
It looks like all hosted customers are getting shafted and skipped over in the queue. It's a really messed up way to treat your loyal customers.
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October 13, 2013, 12:26:21 PM
 #15449

 Rampion dev boxes are being sent out. I agreed to do that, so rest assured their packaging will be completed by yours truly Wink

Seriously? More boxes on my way?

That'd be great, but I don't think so Wink

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October 13, 2013, 12:27:32 PM
 #15450

300X Saturn order, paid July 11, in progress. Cool
364X Jupiter oder, paid July 15, in progress. Cool

One more week to ship?? Sad

Sh**!

Order #20xx paid june 12th, hosting, I have received neither account info to access my unit, nor compensation.

I've written two days ago to ask for info... no answer so far.

spiccioli

glad to see a 20xx order is now hosted/mining??, sorry you can't get into your miner yet spic...this means my order isn't too far behind I hope!

I've paid for hosting but I have no idea if it is mining since I cannot access it and the address I've configured on KnC site is not mining.

So, for all I know my unit is still to be built, but units 1000 orders behind mine are already going out. Sad

spiccioli
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October 13, 2013, 12:29:20 PM
 #15451

300X Saturn order, paid July 11, in progress. Cool
364X Jupiter oder, paid July 15, in progress. Cool

One more week to ship?? Sad

Sh**!

Order #20xx paid june 12th, hosting, I have received neither account info to access my unit, nor compensation.

I've written two days ago to ask for info... no answer so far.

spiccioli

glad to see a 20xx order is now hosted/mining??, sorry you can't get into your miner yet spic...this means my order isn't too far behind I hope!
It looks like all hosted customers are getting shafted and skipped over in the queue. It's a really messed up way to treat your loyal customers.

Yeah,

btw hosting for six months was a hefty 2600 USD, so we're not talking about pocket change.

spiccioli
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October 13, 2013, 12:31:10 PM
 #15452

2600 usd is a lot...
Competition takes much less, but here you are paying premium for no shipping instant 1day hashing without issues...
erk
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October 13, 2013, 12:35:58 PM
 #15453

300X Saturn order, paid July 11, in progress. Cool
364X Jupiter oder, paid July 15, in progress. Cool

One more week to ship?? Sad

Sh**!

Order #20xx paid june 12th, hosting, I have received neither account info to access my unit, nor compensation.

I've written two days ago to ask for info... no answer so far.

spiccioli

glad to see a 20xx order is now hosted/mining??, sorry you can't get into your miner yet spic...this means my order isn't too far behind I hope!
It looks like all hosted customers are getting shafted and skipped over in the queue. It's a really messed up way to treat your loyal customers.
Sorry to sound like a troll, but really, people who are paying for hosting instead of keeping their costs down to the tune of $3,960 per Jupiter, are not thinking though this very well. You have a tight window to get a positive ROI on ASICs, throwing away thousands for hosting, and you are obviously not all that concerned with maximizing profits anyway.

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October 13, 2013, 12:41:42 PM
 #15454

300X Saturn order, paid July 11, in progress. Cool
364X Jupiter oder, paid July 15, in progress. Cool

One more week to ship?? Sad

Sh**!

Order #20xx paid june 12th, hosting, I have received neither account info to access my unit, nor compensation.

I've written two days ago to ask for info... no answer so far.

spiccioli

glad to see a 20xx order is now hosted/mining??, sorry you can't get into your miner yet spic...this means my order isn't too far behind I hope!
It looks like all hosted customers are getting shafted and skipped over in the queue. It's a really messed up way to treat your loyal customers.

Yeah,

btw hosting for six months was a hefty 2600 USD, so we're not talking about pocket change.

spiccioli
sorry spiccioli, I misread your statement and thought you were already mining. Doesn't bode well then, and my earlier posting to bitcoinorama stands.

And just to reiterate, I don't hold bitcoinorama in any way responsible for the current status with KNC, nor do I expect anything from you. It just seems apparent that you have become the voice for both sides of this equation(endeavor). I was hoping that when they tested my unit, that the burn in would be done with our PRE-CONFIGURED POOLS/MINERS, and I was going to donate that to BITCOINORAMA, and had much much earlier suggested this, but it seems that the burn-in time is being done on a different pool?? Anyhow, if KNC AND US CUSTOMERS/INVESTORS can figure out a happy medium through your help 'orama, it certainly would not only be greatly appreciated but would obviously further solidify your credibility as a bitcoin proponent where ever that path may lead.
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October 13, 2013, 12:43:53 PM
Last edit: October 13, 2013, 01:05:11 PM by Bitcoinorama
 #15455

Bitcoinorama:
I've been following your posts on Knc from the beginning, starting with the initial interview. I check the direct link to your posts before I check the general boards. That's how important you are here.

You seem like a really good guy, genuinely interested in Bitcoin and the btc economy and community and not just the money. And I know you trust the guys at Knc, they trust you, and you have a good relationship, and so on...but seriously, how far are you willing to go for these guys? It actually kinda hurts to see you coming under fire, and your integrity questioned.

The truth at the end of the day is that it's all about the result, and while KnC have put in a tremendous effort that's recognized by all, they're not delivering on a lot of counts. Shipping delays, boards catching on fire, voltage regulator cutbacks (8 to 4), firmware isssues ... the list goes on and on. It's like in football/soccer.. the team and manager can put in a great effort, pull out all the stops, but if at the end of the day they lose or get relegated, the fans are still unhappy, possibly even up in arms. And heads still roll, regardless of how hard they tried.

In all sincerity, can I suggest that you take a breather, have a pint, and consider just how much you're willing to give up for these guys? I think you should have a think about it, and be careful not to entangle/embroil yourself in something you wish you could get out of later but can't. You don't work for them, yet are going to great lengths to defend them and answer questions on their behalf. The truth is that THEY should be the ones trading exchanges with people on here and taking the heat, not you. I just don't want to see you turn into an Ineba-like figure and have your credibility and reputation comprimised or ruined altogether. That'd be a shame after the stellar shift you've put in - all on KnC's behalf.

Soapmodem, I take on board and appreciate what you are saying, and likewise please might I suggest you take a break from reading the armchair engineers and FUD spread around maliciously within this thread. Whilst I agree Murphy is yet omnipresent, I have always told it precisely how it is. If you are to receive a product that is being shipped from the day after chips were first received there will be a lack of refinement that will be ironed out. If you ask any real engineer about what is being undertaken here they will tell you unreservedly the magnitude of the work and achievement being undertaken, let alone at 28nm tech.

In essence you cannot have extreme performance, without extreme refinement, let alone at this speed to market. Within one week there is a working product, that has had some hiccups and the firmware revision have reached a point of stability for the most part. If you want a perfect hands-off consumer ready product than you're welcome to wait the standard average times of 12-18 months for 28nm tech. If you are willing to be proactive and responsive, than you'll be hashing sooner than anyone else with 28nm from another company.

The margins in the design, such as the 8vrms were in place to compensate for any design issues so the product could fly out of the door and into your hands. There will be ongoing revisions to the product over time, both physical, and firmware/software, that is a given as that aspect of the standard timeframe has been removed so you can hash with the product immediately. This is why the true ability of the product was consistently under promised. Few that have the product in hand are complaining.

It's also why there is a sudden desperation by competitors who have made unrealistic performance claims and delievry dates to badmouth KnC, and attempt to appease their audience, whilst beginning to backtrack on dates ahead of their dishonest claims being realised. My integrity can be questioned for all anyone likes, go for it. I've never lied. My integrity remains intact. You cannot argue honesty, and you cannot compete with lies.

In conclusion, as and when issues arise, and are being brought to our attention here, the logical responseis to do what any sane party would do, determine cause, and rectify the issue as soon as possible, without hinderence. It's unfortunate the Arctic fans appear to still loosen in transit. The boxes are being replaced with thicker reinforced cardboard, and new courier companies are being considered, however as I stated above they all now contract to third party delivery firms to handle ground collection and delivery, choosing to focus on the air transit and customs side. The guys that UPS send to the manufacturing fab, turn up in a variety of vehicles, and never with UPS branding. The PSU issue is unfortunate, but unless you want KnC to take the time to test every potential consumer PSU for concern, which would delay delivery further, the best that can be offered is an ongoing list of which PSUs create such fault, and which don't. They immediately flew in General Electrics Critical Power division to work on any complications.  I have the accurate description the GM guy gave me, but that's at KnC's office on my MacBook. The battery died whilst he was there yesterday and although I had the charger, I had left the UK->EU adapter plugged in the wall at the hotel I'm now at. That said the corsair HX850 is now known to elcit such an undesirable consequence due to the load initiated upon reset of the PSU and should be avoided. Could not have been predicted. Could once the chips were in hand every brand of PSU likely to have been used been tested on working devices running for significant periods of burn in time time whilst firmware is revised to a point of absolute perfection to satisfy a consumer audience? Sure. Does anyone here want to wait the length of time that would involve? No.

The Coolermaster V850 is without a doubt the most tested compliant PSU with so far no complications present as all the dev boxes, and the entire hosting facility is equipt throughout and there have been no issues since.

Hopefully within this next week everyone can be happily hashing as comfortably as the majority of those in possession of their units. Sam, and Andreas are at the hosting facility today and boards, and working with the pool configuration. Of the guys currently hosted, only six devices are under performing and that is being addressed, that includes DHenson, and one, or two of Bargraphics lot. Again this is not hosting all devices and offering a proportional piece of a shared hashrate like certain cloud based entities. This is each individual customer having access to their individual device configured by a rather complex API. Marcus and Michael drove back to the manufacturing facility today to oversee the physical production and deliveries personally, after handing the reigns over previously to concentrate on working alongside General Electric the last few days.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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October 13, 2013, 01:03:02 PM
 #15456

just out of curiosity, is anyone SOLO mining out of RENO NEVADA??
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October 13, 2013, 01:04:44 PM
 #15457

Well, we will see if they adress the compensation issue with their next update or not. I for one am pretty curious if they will honour UN trade law.

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You could help Wink 1Dvja1RFCqxdnYRgjTntwGvdCeUisU4xp
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October 13, 2013, 01:09:16 PM
 #15458

Orama,
Thanks for trying to keep things in perspective.

Check your PMs.

Your Message Here
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October 13, 2013, 01:10:46 PM
 #15459

Well, we will see if they adress the compensation issue with their next update or not. I for one am pretty curious if they will honour UN trade law.

Mota, I imagine you would be happy with something that would help remedy/rectify the current situation? Maybe btc, maybe extra hashing power (from what is currently provided), maybe missed hashing days/btc credit towards more hashing power??
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October 13, 2013, 01:15:14 PM
 #15460

just out of curiosity, is anyone SOLO mining out of RENO NEVADA??

Wouldn't surprise me at all. I lived in Reno for a while just out of high school. While everyone knows it as Nevada's other gambling mecca, it's not as well known just how much industry is there. In 1990 when I left, they were busily rebuilding their entire telephony net to handle the load. As of about 98, they had gone fully fibre optic. Power is relatively cheap there as well. It would be a good place to set up. Also doesn't hurt that Nevada and the city of Reno both have a huge amount of tax incentives for new businesses, no personal income tax and really low corporate taxes. It's a good place to do business.

Besides that, it's the kind of place where if you can't have fun, you simply don't know how Smiley

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