Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[ASIC-K]

doesnt mention what you are talking about in there....

" We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network"

You might have to find the conversations that surrounded this announcement.

yeah sorry man, i think your seeing what you want to see...

[erschiessen]

Could be an assumption. My apologies,
I don't think ROI is going to be an issue for KnC October orders.

It might not be as sexy as first thought, but you will see profits.

The other 28 nm guys will start delivering late fall.

KnC will continue to produce gear, methinks.

I hope it doesn't interfere with KnC Gen II.

[jmevz]

I'm looking forward to seeing this KNC Gen II gear. Can't wait for my unit in October either.

[kano]

Though ... it is interesting to see discussion about obsoleting your hardware shortly after it is released ...
... or maybe that shortly after isn't shortly after?

[erschiessen]

Though ... it is interesting to see discussion about obsoleting your hardware shortly after it is released ...
... or maybe that shortly after isn't shortly after?

It's both exciting and a shame.

KnC had the ability to be forward-thinking to know that the fastest gear made (excepting the 4 bfl mini-rigs) wasn't going to remain as profitable as crappy 110 nm gear was when it first came to market.

To say that I have certain expectations in March would be understating things.
I can't be alone.

[amencon]

Where is the miner protection program?

3) --- KnC will ensure ROI.

Be careful with this.  I don't believe they have made that claim and I'd be very suspicious of any ASIC manufacturer that did.  Even if KNC delivers exactly when they say they will, there is no way to be %100 sure of ROI on their devices.  Sure I think it's likely any devices shipped in Sept. (maybe Oct too?) will make ROI, but there always could be a hidden actor that floods the network with hashrate, at cost not available to the general consumer, at any time.  KNC is promising a device with X minimum hashrate and Y maximum power costs in Sept or Oct depending on when ordered and that's all. 

Even without a hidden actor I don't think we can conclusively say that they won't deliver enough devices to destroy ROI for their own customers at the end of their queue.  Though I don't think this is likely we don't have an exact count of received orders to speculate with.

[erk]

I'm looking forward to seeing this KNC Gen II gear. Can't wait for my unit in October either.

They probably haven't started designing it yet, remember they announced a break for a couple of months early next year to do so.

[SirWizz]

KNC were quite clear with respect to the ROI issue. They will do their best to protect their customer's share of the network (aggressive pricing, continuous production if needed, etc.) so that their current customers get a ROI and they can invest in Gen 2 devices, however they can not guarantee it. That is fair as there is risk involved and no one can predict the future.

[FeedbackLoop]

Where is the miner protection program?

3) --- KnC will ensure ROI.

Be careful with this.  I don't believe they have made that claim and I'd be very suspicious of any ASIC manufacturer that did.  Even if KNC delivers exactly when they say they will, there is no way to be %100 sure of ROI on their devices.  Sure I think it's likely any devices shipped in Sept. (maybe Oct too?) will make ROI, but there always could be a hidden actor that floods the network with hashrate, at cost not available to the general consumer, at any time.  KNC is promising a device with X minimum hashrate and Y maximum power costs in Sept or Oct depending on when ordered and that's all.  

Even without a hidden actor I don't think we can conclusively say that they won't deliver enough devices to destroy ROI for their own customers at the end of their queue.  Though I don't think this is likely we don't have an exact count of received orders to speculate with.

I would say that sticking with KnC, at the moment, really is a bet that they will over deliver and "ensure ROI" someway. And it would have to be by a large margin... (more than an extra 100 GH/s or extra chip in box level of over deliver!). Calculators with >60% monthly increase look bad enough even with zero consideration to the current threat of 1 million 5GH/s chips hanging over the market. Namely this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248625.0;all

finally starting to hit the network as this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269730.40

I'm sticking to the bet that KnC will over-deliver massively but knowing it's a huge risk. Maybe because I'm desperate to have something to mine with. Or maybe I am emotionally invested in betting that KnC will be the first company to finally show "how it's done" (as it sounds so many in this thread are...).

Also they said something similar to this to me on the phone :    

KNC were quite clear with respect to the ROI issue. They will do their best to protect their customer's share of the network (aggressive pricing, continuous production if needed, etc.) so that their current customers get a ROI and they can invest in Gen 2 devices, however they can not guarantee it. That is fair as there is risk involved and no one can predict the future.

[Anenome5]

doesnt mention what you are talking about in there....

" We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network"

You might have to find the conversations that surrounded this announcement.

This is worded poorly, but by this it seems from later statements that they meant two things, that they will cease shipping devices from December through March, and that their October and November devices will be priced to meet the competition. They later announced a November price cut, so that's in line with that statement.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

nightengale,

This is what I was talking about.


https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

KnCMiner Network Protection Statement

At KnCMiner we are aware of the service we are providing to our customers. We are also aware that we need our customers to have a return on their devices in order to purchase form us again. With the scale of the supply chains, agreements and factories we have access to, we need to be cautious we don’t ship too many devices and therefore reduce the return to our customers.  So with that in mind our plan is to do as follows: We will ship no devices in December 2013, January 2014 or  February 2014. Meaning that once we have taken the difficulty up at the end of November we will not release any more hashing power for 3 months. We will then release our new generation of devices, which will begin shipping in March 2014. These devices will also have a much higher GH/$ rating than any of our current offerings. We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.ThanksKnCMiner Team 

I'm curious as to what exchange rate parameters they used to justify such calculations. If the rate happens to go up five fold, wouldn't they be kicking themselves in the butt for not have products available during D, J and F?

[MrHempstock]

I took the above KNC quote to mean they don't plan on releasing product during Dec/Jan/Feb to help keep the skyrocketing hashrate down and thereby help customer's ROI UNLESS their competitors release large quantities during those months. Which is almost guaranteed to happen. Am I off base?

[Phoenix1969]

I took the above KNC quote to mean they don't plan on releasing product during Dec/Jan/Feb to help keep the skyrocketing hashrate down and thereby help customer's ROI UNLESS their competitors release large quantities during those months. Which is almost guaranteed to happen. Am I off base?

I agree

[androz]

I took the above KNC quote to mean they don't plan on releasing product during Dec/Jan/Feb to help keep the skyrocketing hashrate down and thereby help customer's ROI UNLESS their competitors release large quantities during those months. Which is almost guaranteed to happen.

the competitors r applying the same network protection politic with delays 

this kind of politic sounds weird if not every seller apply it

maybe in the future we will a sellers cartel for network protection, just for keep costumers buying their devices (and grant them more money)

[Micky25]

you confuse that with another company, this is not HashFast, this modell is from ArseFarts.

On "Baby Jet" I was thinking more along the lines of...

[Anenome5]

I took the above KNC quote to mean they don't plan on releasing product during Dec/Jan/Feb to help keep the skyrocketing hashrate down and thereby help customer's ROI UNLESS their competitors release large quantities during those months. Which is almost guaranteed to happen. Am I off base?

That's not my read, no. Under no circumstance will they be selling products in dec/jan/feb.

[arorts]

I took the above KNC quote to mean they don't plan on releasing product during Dec/Jan/Feb to help keep the skyrocketing hashrate down and thereby help customer's ROI UNLESS their competitors release large quantities during those months. Which is almost guaranteed to happen. Am I off base?

That's not my read, no. Under no circumstance will they be selling products in dec/jan/feb.

Haha! What part of "IF" in the following sentence you don't understand?

"We would like to state that ****IF***** any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.ThanksKnCMiner Team "

So they WILL if competitors add large amounts of hashing power in those months. Nothing to debate.

[jelin1984]

come on knc

do the test
i need to buy a psu
 

[Gyrsur]

they have no chips at the moment. maybe they plan to build a taskforce to fly to china.

[bumpk1nK]

come on knc

do the test
i need to buy a psu
 

You have plenty of time to buy your PSU, dont worry