Devcoin

[markm]

The major financial entities in the game use the currencies more as units of account than as limited supply commodities.

There are tables at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html where you can look up the conversion rates, so they basically do not care which currency you pay your debt in, they just look up the conversion rate of the one it is denominated in to the one you are paying in. The tables are historic, so that they can even bring their accounts up to date later. like sit down periodically and look up for each shipment of deuterium that came in what the going rate for deuterium was that day, how that converted that day into the currency the debt it was to be applied against was denominated, round it to whole coins because the Digitalis Open Transactions server does all assets in whole integers, and send off balancing payments to the appropriate other entities.

Thus really all that denominating one's debt in devcoins instead of, for example, General Mining Corp scrip or General Retirement Funds scrip, is let you avoid the massive deflation GMC and GRF went through, because devcoins have not shot up in value nearly as massively as those other currencies did. People whose debt is still denominated in GMC and GRF, which is what the original startup loans were in, would be screwed totally from the massive deflation, but, the inhabited planets simply cannot afford to let the plan fail, they need to get massive fleets of deathstars set up in distant galaxies to provide a defensive shield around the home galaxies.

The interest rates were already halved a couple of times and various other measures were taken, but in general over the long haul the whole thing is pretty much a sure thing it just is going to take a lot of years. If they fail to get a defensive perimeter set up all the worlds will be attacked by swarms of deathstars from even-more-distant galaxies eventually, their only chance is to get out there with massive force before some enemy appears out there in massive force. Once those mining corps have their jumpgate(s) built to reach the farther galaxies and set up production facilities in the farther galaxies they will be able to sell off at profit to governments or sell deathstars to the united home-galaxies defense initiative or whatever. It is just going to take a long time to actually get out there.

-MarkM-

[markm]

I just checked and one of my orders went through.  I was able to add to my devcoin position which I bought about 10 days ago at .00041.  I thought I got an unreal deal back then but I just added just over 1 million more devcoin coins for nearly half that, .00022.  And that's high, the next guy is bidding a ridiculous 10 times less at .00004000.  There's no way it will go that low, at least I hope not.  So it looks like I'll be earning way less than I expected for writing for round 24 for but for me the dollar value doesn't matter, just the number of coins, as I don't plan to sell until my theory is proved one way or another which could take up to 1 year although I think we'll see something serious enough to at least confirm it in the next 60 days  

What price lists are you looking at? The one I use - pretty much the only one I look at at all really - is https://vircurex.com/orders?alt=dvc&base=btc but the numbers you mention don't seem to be from there?

People's coins come in all through the round, its not lump sum payments, it goes out as it is mined.

Back to the debt a moment: the primary way of paying it off is by shipping "deuterium" to depots. The deuterium price lists show how many devcoins or whatever else the deuterium is worth, which is then applied against the debt. So in the long term they don't need any currency to pay their debts, they can just keep shipping ever-larger quantities of "deuterium".

They can also ship "crystal" and "metal" though those resources are not as valuable; they can be used to build fleets but not to fuel fleets, and fuel is a major strategic resource since if you can keep your fleet in flight in those types of games it is invulnerable, since attacks are only implemented as attacks upon planets or moons, which involve destroying the "defending" fleet in the process. So if your fleet can always fly away, leaving the planet or moon to be looted or whatever, you can keep increasing the size of your fleet until no planet or moon's defenses, unaided by a defending fleet, can possibly resist it, and if your total production capacity is largest you can ultimately have the largest fleet and crush all opposing fleets. Which the civilised worlds aim to do to prevent any enemy fleets coming to any galaxy anywhere near the home galaxies.

-MarkM-

[Vlad2Vlad]

MarkM, I use vircurex and all day long and even yesterday the big on dvc was .0000400.  Maybe you're looking at the ask.  or maybe you're looking at euros. 

How low has devcoin been in the last 6 months?  Has anybody else been here that long to remember?  I'm just curious to get an idea of how low It can go....well, besides zero, I suppose anything can go to zero. I read it was around $10 per coin when it first came out.  wow.  but I'm sure at that time (devcoin is what, 2 years old?) there were many less coins, but still, $10 per coin back then for a virtual coin, if true, is incredible.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Today I have transferred 10k DVC to Ripple using what Emfox made available:
 http://ripple.d.evco.in/

Not so immediate as I thought, but it works!

Well done, Emfox.

PS It really look strange a deposit of DVC in Ripple wallet.

ripple wallet?  can you store multiple types of coins in that?  why is that better than the devcoin wallet on devtome or vircurex.  well, besides the fact vircurex has been hacked twice in 2 months.  I'm hoping sooon sooooooon there's gonna be an easy wallet that will hold everything.  I think these NFC phones have that ability and the new iphone should almost certainly have Authentic's biometric logon credentials and almost certainly also have NFC and with those things it would be pretty easy for a bright programmer to write a simply or not so simply app that allows you to store your banking info, and all your various coins and with some encryption like what coinbase uses and with biometrics it would be easier to rob your house in broad daylight than steal your coins.

Please tell me more about this ripple wallet and why it's better and as soon as anyone hears of any type of good universal wallet please scream it out.  thanks

[Vlad2Vlad]

MarkM,

login to vircurex and go to the box on the right for devcoin and then click on the dvc/USD and then scroll all the way to the bottom and you'll see all the recent bids, asks and also a lot of the recent sales and at what price they sold and what volume.  Looks like someone got lucky and bought even cheaper than me, 499,000 coins at .00020.   the guy bidding .0000400 is still there but now there's a big ahead of him for .00020 but it's for a small amount like 20,000 coins.

I'm really surprised to see the biggest, busiest coin exchange and with such a liquid coin like devcoin to see such low volumes in both the bid and asks and total sales.

not many people actually buy these coins.  I'm used to watching stocks and even a penny stock sees massive volume everyday and the more shares they have out the bigger the volumes, usually.  with devcoin, cause it's so cheap right now and cause they have so many coins out, i'm guessing 4 to 5 billion, I would expect to see at least 20 million coins trading hands on a daily basis.  on a dollar value that's nothing, any guy with a minimum wage job can mess with the prices by playing with the bid or walking the price up using incremental bids like market makers do with stocks to drop the price and take out the shares sitting below key price targets with stop loss orders. 

man, If I had a few K to mess with and of course sitting on a bunch of devcoins I'd try to manipulate the price to see how high I can take it cause the liquidity looks so fragile that I think any sudden spike in demand, even just something like $50,000 would cause a huge jump in the price because there's no market makers on these exchanges holding a constant supply and there's just not enough supply at any given point in time from the looks of it.

Man, if wallsreet ever gets involved or a stock trader with some cash you're gonna see fire works.  I think it's only a matter of time.  Oh please, just give me enough time to earn one, maybe two more rounds of shares and to buy at least 10 more million on the open market given the price is so cheap.  When you're holding that many shares or coins of something the price just has to hiccup and you're rich.  well, just the poor mechanics of a nascent unprepared market and exchange will play a key role in taking digital coin prices much higher when demand picks up.  No wonder bitcoin went to $266 so fast and no wonder namecoin went up 1,000 fold in like 30 or 40 days, beating any record by even the most pumped up bubble stock ever....only the tulip bubble maybe beat namecoin and this is with a joke of awareness so far.  wait for the real deal to happen soon. 

I can't wait - just from a historic standpoint, it's gonna be ridiculous and amazing to watch.  I hope it happens before bankers get in on it (ie VC's and coinbase) cause they'll add market makers and a supply storage to handle any sudden spikes in demand or maybe even add circuit breakers like halting trading.   We don't want that modern stuff, we want 1929 in reverse, we want dope and dopey trying to match bid and ask orders when all hell is breaking loose and supply can't be found anywhere so people will then get desperate thinking there's no more coins and they've missed the boat and greed will kick in and the asks will fly like crazy.  lol....what a wonder to watch if that should ever unravel in such a way.

[weisoq]

Vlad, markm's looking at DVC/BTC you're looking at DVC/USD. While (imo) it is correct to look at the value vs $ or £ or whatever (and i see a lot of trends/trades that make little sense when viewed against fiat rather than btc) most trade vs BTC. For example, right now the bid/offer in DVC/BTC translates to 0.00019/0.000212 in dollar terms, ignoring transaction fees. For now there's not much liquidity in trading most alts vs dollars so you'll be lucky to get decent prices, in fact this is one of the current barriers to better alt take-up.

[Vlad2Vlad]

someone else mentioned something about a ripple wallet for devcoins.

I just opened a ripple account (looks like another smooth coinbase like beta future exchange site, the smart money is seeing something here) and they also gave me 1 wallet number which starts with r which I'm guessing is for ripple.

what I wanna know is can I use (finally) this 1 wallet number for all my various coins?  can I use it to receive coins?  I guess I can send myself some devcoins to see if it works. 

[Vlad2Vlad]

someone else mentioned something about a ripple wallet for devcoins.

I just opened a ripple account (looks like another smooth coinbase like beta future exchange site, the smart money is seeing something here) and they also gave me 1 wallet number which starts with r which I'm guessing is for ripple.

what I wanna know is can I use (finally) this 1 wallet number for all my various coins?  can I use it to receive coins?  I guess I can send myself some devcoins to see if it works. 

that's awesome.  I just now opened a ripple account.  how did you get the xrp coins?  what's their value, cause I've never heard of them. TIA

[Vlad2Vlad]

Vlad, markm's looking at DVC/BTC you're looking at DVC/USD. While (imo) it is correct to look at the value vs $ or £ or whatever (and i see a lot of trends/trades that make little sense when viewed against fiat rather than btc) most trade vs BTC. For example, right now the bid/offer in DVC/BTC translates to 0.00019/0.000212 in dollar terms, ignoring transaction fees. For now there's not much liquidity in trading most alts vs dollars so you'll be lucky to get decent prices, in fact this is one of the current barriers to better alt take-up.

that's confusing me a bit.  are you saying it's cheaper to buy devcoins in dollars versus say BTC?  riskless arbitrage would fix that problem in a matter of minutes if that was the case but then again who's looking for arbitrage opportunities on these illiquid sites so early on. 

I don't have any BTC so I simply buy any of the coins I want the old fashioned way like my grandparents used to do, using dollars.  oh no, it has already started.

[Vlad2Vlad]

and who's emfox, how did you get 10,000 dvc from them?  I opened a ripple account 15 minutes ago but for some weird reason it still say offline in black in the upper right hand side.

but i'm online so I don't know what's up.  I'm typing on a laptop and the ripple account is opened on an ipad so maybe that's the issue.  but compared to vircurex these new exchange sites popping up, first coinbase and now ripple are simply light years ahead.  I feel bad cause vircurex was there first but it looks like the guys with millions want their own sandbox(es).  and this is only the beginning.

You know what they say - follow the smart money.  well, for once I've made the right moves before the smart money and boy does it feel good.  these guys with billions didn't see it coming and only now and only a few are strting to get the picture and theyre putting millions to work.  and soon, I hope, they'll put those millions into things like 1 super secure wallet app and super secure exchange site with every coin out there for sale or trade and an easy to use mining program for free or for a small fee.  the market is there so hopefully these guys will move swiftly.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Bitstamp.net

what?

I just saw your post where you transferred 10K DVC into ripple.  that's awesome, I'm gonna try to transfer like 50 coins from my home computer to see if it works.  it would be great to have such better sites with secure wallets to help spread the risk.  I hate having most of my coins in one exchange or even at home.  I'd rather have them with 5 different exchanges and the rest on a cold drive.

I still don't get what you're saying about bitstamp.net.  are you talking about people buying bitstamps and then using that to buy devcoins?  I had to buy voucherX(USD) to be able to buy devcoins.  it sucks, cauee it's $60 just in wiring fees.  That's a rippoff when sites like coinbase hook up your checking account instantly.   man I can't wait for them to start trading devcoins and the rest.

[Vlad2Vlad]

I just tried to transfer 100 devcoins from vircures to the ripple address (starting with r) and it said invalid devcoin address so I don't know how you were able to transfer to ripple.

I tried to transfer from my home computer but the client I have installed which I installed from devtome just 10 days ago doesn't even have an option to send coins.  so how exactly do I sell the coins from this computer using this wallet in the future?  Am I just too tired cause I looked twice and there's only receive and sent, as in past tense.  there's no option or tab for send.  and I checked the 2 dropdown menus and there's no send option.  I would really like to put some of my coins in ripple kind of as a spread risk safe keeping thing.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Nice point of you
Not to increase the security, but spread the risk. It's true. Everything is at your own risk. Only the time will tell who is gonna be the next bitcoin, even if I am afraid to know already the answer.

What's you guess?  Just instinctive feeling?  Sometimes that instinct knows more than a PhD.  Thanks for sharing. 

In my opinion I feel very strongly about Namecoin and Devcoin but I honestly don't know why and I felt like this the first 5 minutes after I read up on bitcoin and my feeling hasn't changed although I feel stronger about devcoin now than I did even at first.

which coin is your first pick and do you know why?  what about 2nd pick?  TIA

[Vlad2Vlad]

Check the emfox post a few pages back and follow the instruction. Remember that vircurex charge you 100 dvc fee

ok.  I saw that but I figure 100 DVC is like 1 cent so compared to the $50 banksters charge I was shocked in a good way.  don't worry, banksters will hijack this entire market once it's obvious it's here to stay.

So what's your first and second pick for the next bitcoin explosive coin?  And why if you have any real reason although instinct is good enough.  We should start a thread to see what people's instinct says about what the next big coin will be but try to not let confirmation bias cloud your feelings and contaminate your instinct.

[FinShaggy]

So maybe this is a blessing in disquise, since most writers etc probably earn coins to immediately sell them then maybe there will be less people competing for round 24.

Devcoin/Devtome is getting its own forum sections, faucets, YouTube videos, blog articles and more soon... So I wouldn't count on ^that^. BUT, the smaller shares get and the more widespread coins get, the more valuable they become

[Jakewell]

how many dev coins are out there in total?

[FinShaggy]

how many dev coins are out there in total?

180,000,000 + 10% per round. 22 rounds.

[weisoq]

Vlad, markm's looking at DVC/BTC you're looking at DVC/USD. While (imo) it is correct to look at the value vs $ or £ or whatever (and i see a lot of trends/trades that make little sense when viewed against fiat rather than btc) most trade vs BTC. For example, right now the bid/offer in DVC/BTC translates to 0.00019/0.000212 in dollar terms, ignoring transaction fees. For now there's not much liquidity in trading most alts vs dollars so you'll be lucky to get decent prices, in fact this is one of the current barriers to better alt take-up.

that's confusing me a bit.  are you saying it's cheaper to buy devcoins in dollars versus say BTC?  riskless arbitrage would fix that problem in a matter of minutes if that was the case but then again who's looking for arbitrage opportunities on these illiquid sites so early on. 

I don't have any BTC so I simply buy any of the coins I want the old fashioned way like my grandparents used to do, using dollars.  oh no, it has already started.

It's not that it's necessarily cheaper, but that if/when you're looking to buy you should go for the cheapest option at any time. 'Cheapest' has to incorporate transaction fees but also liquidity i.e. there's no point sitting on the best bid in dvc/usd if nobody wantes to sell you dvc for dollars.

Usually with currency exchange, you should look at minimum of three cross rates - e.g. let's say you were interested in trading the gbp/usd rate. You could just buy or sell gbp/usd but then that's a pure punt. To be able to make any informed view you have to introduce at least one more currency, so you'd look at gbp/usd, eur/usd and eur/gbp - that way it becomes an issue of relative value. Now in the real world there's pretty much zero mispricing opportunity between those 3 currencies - no arbitrage as you say. Wih cryptocurrencies however there's a lot of mispricing, but as yet little opportunity to exploit this as liquidity is rubbish.

So the tl;dr version is, if you just want to buy and hold devcoin, find the cheapest way of buying it. If you want to trade devcoin or any other crypto try to assess the relative value of one way of buying it vs others.

[Vlad2Vlad]

So maybe this is a blessing in disquise, since most writers etc probably earn coins to immediately sell them then maybe there will be less people competing for round 24.

Devcoin/Devtome is getting its own forum sections, faucets, YouTube videos, blog articles and more soon... So I wouldn't count on ^that^. BUT, the smaller shares get and the more widespread coins get, the more valuable they become

bummer.  I wish I had found devtome just one month sooner.  maybe this is why I've had this inate feeling that I only have 1 maybe 2 months to really earn coins on devtome.  Well, I only had 3 days for round 23 and I did the most I could staying up all night each night writing and now for round 24, presuming the popularity will only increase and each share will be worth much less and the following round even more so I'm now writing 12 hours per night, and it's harder than I thought as some night I spend hours spacing out trying to get a single sentence to flow while other nights pages flow out in a single hour. 

I wrote like a 25 page paper on my life story as a child in the eastern block (double spaced 25 pages) and I thought, boy, if I can write a full blown 30 page research paper in 12 hours I can probably blow through this thing 25 pages and all in 2 hours and I was schocked it took me 8 hours.  I mean you're just telling a story about yourself but there's tiny details that you stop and think about and if a paragraph doesn't sound right you rewrite it and so on - before you know it the entire night is gone.

So even though I wrote tons of papers in college it was usually one or two per term so I never fully realized how hard it is to really be a "writer" to write every day, even when you don't feel like it but I have such a burning sense of urgency and I think it's a real feeling that this, something this good, will simply not last and it's already starting to look like my feelings were right.

In that case I should try to put more money in buying these coins, especially at .00022.  that's a joke and these exchanges are so inefficient and even a well diluted coin like devcoin has no liquidity that there will be times when a coin's selling price will be off by entire factors which is when you buy buy buy.  lol, inefficiencies like this don't exist in the stock market.

for the next 1 year, maybe 2 max, until the banks and smart money take over and demand levels off, I predict that a normal person who works hard to mine or earn coins or takes some risk and buys some coins and has the patience to wait to sell them when the awareness and demand spikes and doesn't sell for a "quick double" which is nothing in this new market especially at this stage then I predict it will be easier than at any other time in history to become a millionaire. 

this is all just instinct based off 20 years of active stock market participation (on a personal level not professional) and coupled with the education I have which is also oriented toward the same thing (BS in econ and BS in finance).

Even if I'm right by just a fraction, making a few hundred K will prove to be an easy thing.  It's important to not go for the head fake, the first wave of awareness, excitement as that will just be the beginning and many inexperienced or risk averse people and I predict a large portion of all coin holders will sell most if not all their coins once they see a multiple gain of 300 or 400% and what they consider "real" money in their everyday lives which could be as little as $10K which is not real money by any stretech of the imagination and I'm unemployed right now and don't have $10K in savings cause I had to spend it all on living expense s all this time while I haven't found work and went back to school.

so getting the coins is only half the battle, knwing when to sell is the other half. good luck.

oh quick question.  sseems you know a lot about devcoin's future:  will there be profit shareing like dividend in stocks?  if so how will that work and when will that start to yield some sort of dividend.  This is an entirely new business model, and if it works it will change so much....a currency that works for you instead of it sitting and losing value or sitting in a bank vault or making the banksters rich.  absolutey brilliant and new idea.  and I predict it will work cause the engine is the masses and because the shareholders and benefactors are also the masses it should catch fire like nothing else out there once people get it.  It's a true coin by the people for the people.  it's so good it's scary like where's the hidden dangers?  Like communism only this looks like it actually works.lol

[Vlad2Vlad]

how many dev coins are out there in total?

180,000,000 + 10% per round. 22 rounds.

Off the top of my head I predicted 5 billion and it looks about right.

compared to the trillions and trillions of dollars it's not much and if devcoin's business plan starts to work they can buy coins off the exchanges and retire them like shares in a company.  and given there's such few coins, about 6 with a decent reputatioin, once awareness spikes 5 billion, given the poor liquidity at all the exchanges, will spike the price very much and very fast.  most holders of these coins have them on their hard drives not sitting at an exchange so it will take a few weeks for the supply to get where it should be and by then I predict an incredible surge in the price should the demand and awareness spike the way I think it will.  for once market inefficiencies will be a good thing for the regular guy cause in the stock market the banks always know what's gonna happen way before you and me and that's why it's nearly impossible to make good money in stocks.  With the banks out of this for now it feels infinitively easier to make money......well, not just yet but it's only been 30 days for me.  lol