Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[zeetubes]

Link to an article from casey research. They've had varying opinions about bitcoins before but this is pretty positive and also some links to various videos.

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/whether-you-love-or-hate-it-youre-missing-what-really-matters-about-bitcoin

 

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[STT]

The US Marshals easily confiscated DPR's significant amounts of BTC.  If he buried some gold in the mountains, they'll never know about it.

He could have used a cold wallet and hidden that somewhere.  I think he got careless and arrogant maybe.     Both items can be stored elsewhere.

The 70bn world market for gold is really tiny, I think bullion exchange must amount to more then that.   70bn is the revenue of a large global corporation.    


Gold has not failed to store value.   Its risen in the last five years, it is a long term asset and maybe thats inconvenient for most people.   I can easily see bitcoin as best for small transactions but for life savings I'd still rate gold.     To try and argue against more then 3000 years of successful use and storage of value is futile almost comedic
Of the last 15 years gold has fallen in value just one year which was the last year.
  We do have exceptional financial events occurring and I expect eventually more will rely on it again to avoid some of that large political influence we have in national currencies.   70bn is really small, Bonds are traded by the trillions every year and out rank even shares.  Any trend is probably best represented in the largest market.
When gold is 700 or 7000bn traded per year I think the price would reflect better peoples use for it

[jjacob]

They will rather try to create their own crypto-currencies. Lack of control over bitcoin is a problem to them

Yes and yes.

But will these bank-crypto-coins gain traction (value)? Bitcoin is peoples money and I think it will be able to attract way more trust than those bank-coins.

Side-note: even if they are technically superior (eth?), they will have a hard time.

Looking at the reputation of our banks today, not being associated with them is a positive. 

[NewLiberty]

I believe that the banks will not only want to but have to get into the game on Bitcoin
and other crypto-currencies... it’s just a question of time

And a question of keeping everyone else out.
Bitlicense

[cypherdoc]

Who said finite?

http://gizmodo.com/5948739/researchers-discover-bacteria-that-can-produce-pure-gold

[domob]

Who said finite?

http://gizmodo.com/5948739/researchers-discover-bacteria-that-can-produce-pure-gold

They can only extract gold that is already there.  But yes, in principle you could use a nuclear reactor to produce gold from other elements - it just doesn't pay off (nor do these bacteria, from what I heard).

However, I fully agree with you that Bitcoin is vastly superior to gold in most (if not all) aspects - scarcity being one of them.

[cypherdoc]

Argentina Becomes a Tinderbox for Bitcoin

http://readability.com/m?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbitcoinwarrior.net%2F2014%2F08%2Fargentina-becomes-tinderbox-bitcoin%2F

[Odalv]

Who said finite?

http://gizmodo.com/5948739/researchers-discover-bacteria-that-can-produce-pure-gold

lol, bacteria with nuclear reactor

[cypherdoc]

Nice chart

http://imgur.com/a/6Hzl8

[NewLiberty]

Who said finite?

http://gizmodo.com/5948739/researchers-discover-bacteria-that-can-produce-pure-gold

lol, bacteria with nuclear reactor

The radioactive bacteria are apparently worth more than the gold ones.
They cure pancreatic cancer.
http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21576628-surprising-new-way-kill-tumours-three-wrongs-make-right

[molecular]

Who said finite?

http://gizmodo.com/5948739/researchers-discover-bacteria-that-can-produce-pure-gold

haha:

Maybe this critter can save us all from the global economic crisis?

And yet we try the money printing to create wealth.

[cypherdoc]

Gold has not failed to store value.   Its risen in the last five years, it is a long term asset and maybe thats inconvenient for most people.   I can easily see bitcoin as best for small transactions but for life savings I'd still rate gold.     To try and argue against more then 3000 years of successful use and storage of value is futile almost comedic
Of the last 15 years gold has fallen in value just one year which was the last year.

well, i like to think of it as a pullback of 33% for gold since 9/2011 and 61% for silver since 5/2011. those are big pullbacks and suspiciously, those timeframes coincide with the ramp in Bitcoin.  the Gold 2.0 narrative has clearly increased during that time and more and more ppl are converting.  you can see and feel it.  i certainly can.  of course, when you point to the 3000 yr narrative, my arguments sound silly.  that is the ultimate long term chart.  however, i'd like to point out a couple of things.

i think the general public's positive perception of gold peaked not in 2011 but back in 1980.  when Nixon depegged in 1971, the dollar immediately devalued 30% in the 70's which contributed greatly to the inflationary ramp to 800 in 1980.  then began the long grind down to 253 in 1999.  the public forgot about gold for the most part despite the pleas of the gold community b/c the economy actually thrived during those 2 decades. then came the noughts and the NASDAQ crash.  Greenspan cut rates to 1% and stimulated the housing bubble.  everyone was happy again and gold was far from being on their radar.  yet gold started to rise with inflationary expectations by the gold bugs of which i was one.  i remember how hated the gold ramp from 253 in 1999 to 1923 in 2011 was regarded by the general investment community.  i used to watch CNBS regularly during that time and Peter Schiff constantly had acrimonious debates with gold skeptics. of course, he was right in the sense that gold went to 1923 in 2011. yet, i never really knew of many other investors other than myself who rode that train up during that time.  i believe it was solely a speculative ramp with gold never seriously having a chance to regain it's former status as a reserve to the USD.

and then there's my newest argument that gold is/has been failing miserably at fulfilling its historical role as a check to rising bond prices. i don't need to know the exact reason why; i just need to know that it's a fact.  and it is.  in that sense, what good is it for the average US citizen and the economy except as a potential speculative vehicle?  all those trillions that have been pumped into Treasury bond prices over the decades since 1980 creating the greatest bull market ever in world history and yet and so little into gold.  gold: the supposed enforcer.  what a failure.

so i think that gold has been a failure to keep bond prices in check and its thesis is further from the market's mind than you may realize which may be why its dropped so much in the last 3 yrs.  silver and the pm miners are sending a very bad signal, imo, and leading to the downside.

Bitcoin has a much better chance to assume the role of Treasury bond enforcer in the coming years, imo.  but it's very early and requires alot of imagination and optimism

[Odalv]

Who said finite?

http://gizmodo.com/5948739/researchers-discover-bacteria-that-can-produce-pure-gold

lol, bacteria with nuclear reactor

The radioactive bacteria are apparently worth more than the gold ones.
They cure pancreatic cancer.
http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21576628-surprising-new-way-kill-tumours-three-wrongs-make-right

It is not same

a) the "radioactive bacteria"
b) bacteria with ability to make nuclear fusion

[Melbustus]

Gold has not failed to store value.   Its risen in the last five years, it is a long term asset and maybe thats inconvenient for most people.   I can easily see bitcoin as best for small transactions but for life savings I'd still rate gold.     To try and argue against more then 3000 years of successful use and storage of value is futile almost comedic
Of the last 15 years gold has fallen in value just one year which was the last year.

well, i like to think of it as a pullback of 33% for gold since 9/2011 and 61% for silver since 5/2011. those are big pullbacks and suspiciously, those timeframes coincide with the ramp in Bitcoin.  the Gold 2.0 narrative has clearly increased during that time and more and more ppl are converting.  you can see and feel it.  i certainly can.  of course, when you point to the 3000 yr narrative, my arguments sound silly.  that is the ultimate long term chart.  however, i'd like to point out a couple of things.

i think the general public's positive perception of gold peaked not in 2011 but back in 1980.  when Nixon depegged in 1971, the dollar immediately devalued 30% in the 70's which contributed greatly to the inflationary ramp to 800 in 1980.  then began the long grind down to 253 in 1999.  the public forgot about gold for the most part despite the pleas of the gold community b/c the economy actually thrived during those 2 decades. then came the noughts and the NASDAQ crash.  Greenspan cut rates to 1% and stimulated the housing bubble.  everyone was happy again and gold was far from being on their radar.  yet gold started to rise with inflationary expectations by the gold bugs of which i was one.  i remember how hated the gold ramp from 253 in 1999 to 1923 in 2011 was regarded by the general investment community.  i used to watch CNBS regularly during that time and Peter Schiff constantly had acrimonious debates with gold skeptics. of course, he was right in the sense that gold went to 1923 in 2011. yet, i never really knew of many other investors other than myself who rode that train up during that time.  i believe it was solely a speculative ramp with gold never seriously having a chance to regain it's former status as a reserve to the USD.

and then there's my newest argument that gold is/has been failing miserably at fulfilling its historical role as a check to rising bond prices. i don't need to know the exact reason why; i just need to know that it's a fact.  and it is.  in that sense, what good is it for the average US citizen and the economy except as a potential speculative vehicle?  all those trillions that have been pumped into Treasury bond prices over the decades since 1980 creating the greatest bull market ever in world history and yet and so little into gold.  gold: the supposed enforcer.  what a failure.

so i think that gold has been a failure to keep bond prices in check and its thesis is further from the market's mind than you may realize which may be why its dropped so much in the last 3 yrs.  silver and the pm miners are sending a very bad signal, imo, and leading to the downside.

Bitcoin has a much better chance to assume the role of Treasury bond enforcer in the coming years, imo.  but it's very early and requires alot of imagination and optimism

To add to this... I think there's a major generational issue. There's a set of people spanning all generations who see the shenanigans going on with fiat and the ultimate global race to the bottom (short/medium term deflation notwithstanding). Older people from this set head toward gold, inherently thinking of it as inviolate money and "value", due to growing up during a time when it really was (silver/gold certificates anyone?).

Younger people from that set *want* to head toward gold, but after taking a deep look, are often left with a really uneasy feeling about holding it. I count myself in this category. I'm in my early 30s. The story gold is selling looks good; but there's just no convincing argument that gold is actually the vehicle capable of delivering on such an anti-fiat promise. I didn't grow up under a gold standard. To me, gold is a high-end conductor, a gaudy form of jewelry, something one accumulates in video games and board games, and the subject of much fascinating economic history.

So then when those of us from that set who also have a technical leaning/appreciation (or at least, non-fear) happen upon bitcoin, it's truly exciting. This is the vehicle - core demand as actually-ideal money for the electronic era. That's gold's missing link. Without gold having been infused into my mind as kid as the only money, I can look at the situation a little more rationally, in light of the world we actually live in. My opinion, obviously, but I think there are many in my generation (and younger) who will far more easily buy the idea of bitcoin as the counter-fiat play than gold.

[cypherdoc]

i should have added that interest rates skyrocketed to 17% in 1980 while gold ramped to 800.  after all, gold was playing it's traditional role as enforcer of lower Treasury bond prices and its flipside facilitator of higher interest rates.  this clearly was the latest true inflationary period in the US with oil shocks and gas lines, et al.

let me be clear; gold has already failed and continues to fail in it's historical mission of enforcing the above dynamic (sound money). whether it is b/c of manipulation or market perception, it doesn't matter.  

[cypherdoc]

here's some interesting evidence to lend credence to what i've been saying about the interplay btwn CB's and gvt bonds.  clearly, Japan has been in deflation for decades now while simultaneously printing like crazy but hoovering up JGB's at the same time.  yet we get no inflation.  you know the saying; Japanese bond trading floors are littered with the bodies of JGB shorts.  investors cannot solve the conundrum btwn the ongoing, persistent deflation and the massive printing of yen.  "it doesn't make any sense".  as you can see, gold has failed here too in enforcing higher interest rates from loose monetary policy:



yet all we get is this, ie, deflation:



i can't find it right now, but the other day i saw a graph of Japan's share of the mobile phone market and in all OS's it was declining badly.

[Erdogan]

Now I get it -it's been staring in my face for weeks:

You use the word deflation in an unconventional third way, not the economic sense of shrinking money supply, not in the populist sense of shrinking prices, but generally as shrinkage.

Shrinking real wages, shrinking house building, shrinking GDP, shrinking dicks.

Makes sense, although it should be properly agreed upon during a discussion.
 

[zeetubes]

Aside from the shrinking dicks part, only central bankers should be scared by deflation.

[worldinacoin]

ZH: "It's Settled: Central Banks Trade S&P500 Futures"

if it is indeed settled then it wouldn't be a huge shock. Your government dollars at work.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-30/its-settled-central-banks-trade-sp500-futures#comment-5163811

Its not really a shock.  Its in the BASEL iii docs.  They are just surfacing some of the weird evidence of it when exchanges are treating them as a customer.

There are scarier parts, such as the provisions for determining what constitutes minority interests in securitized debt loans constituting the capitalization for the banks, central banks, and "global systemically important financial institutions".  The many loopholes for whether insolvent commercial and sovereign debt instruments be called, and the further secularization of those (which is essentially printing money).

There isn't a better license to steal than being a bank.

I strongly agree the Cyprus banks are an example for other banks to follow. It is no longer safe to have a saving account

[vuduchyld]

Gold has not failed to store value.   Its risen in the last five years, it is a long term asset and maybe thats inconvenient for most people.   I can easily see bitcoin as best for small transactions but for life savings I'd still rate gold.     To try and argue against more then 3000 years of successful use and storage of value is futile almost comedic
Of the last 15 years gold has fallen in value just one year which was the last year.

well, i like to think of it as a pullback of 33% for gold since 9/2011 and 61% for silver since 5/2011. those are big pullbacks and suspiciously, those timeframes coincide with the ramp in Bitcoin.  the Gold 2.0 narrative has clearly increased during that time and more and more ppl are converting.  you can see and feel it.  i certainly can.  of course, when you point to the 3000 yr narrative, my arguments sound silly.  that is the ultimate long term chart.  however, i'd like to point out a couple of things.

i think the general public's positive perception of gold peaked not in 2011 but back in 1980.  when Nixon depegged in 1971, the dollar immediately devalued 30% in the 70's which contributed greatly to the inflationary ramp to 800 in 1980.  then began the long grind down to 253 in 1999.  the public forgot about gold for the most part despite the pleas of the gold community b/c the economy actually thrived during those 2 decades. then came the noughts and the NASDAQ crash.  Greenspan cut rates to 1% and stimulated the housing bubble.  everyone was happy again and gold was far from being on their radar.  yet gold started to rise with inflationary expectations by the gold bugs of which i was one.  i remember how hated the gold ramp from 253 in 1999 to 1923 in 2011 was regarded by the general investment community.  i used to watch CNBS regularly during that time and Peter Schiff constantly had acrimonious debates with gold skeptics. of course, he was right in the sense that gold went to 1923 in 2011. yet, i never really knew of many other investors other than myself who rode that train up during that time.  i believe it was solely a speculative ramp with gold never seriously having a chance to regain it's former status as a reserve to the USD.

and then there's my newest argument that gold is/has been failing miserably at fulfilling its historical role as a check to rising bond prices. i don't need to know the exact reason why; i just need to know that it's a fact.  and it is.  in that sense, what good is it for the average US citizen and the economy except as a potential speculative vehicle?  all those trillions that have been pumped into Treasury bond prices over the decades since 1980 creating the greatest bull market ever in world history and yet and so little into gold.  gold: the supposed enforcer.  what a failure.

so i think that gold has been a failure to keep bond prices in check and its thesis is further from the market's mind than you may realize which may be why its dropped so much in the last 3 yrs.  silver and the pm miners are sending a very bad signal, imo, and leading to the downside.

Bitcoin has a much better chance to assume the role of Treasury bond enforcer in the coming years, imo.  but it's very early and requires alot of imagination and optimism

Great post.  I'm not saying it's 100% correct, but it's really well thought out in its historical narrative.

That's why this is a can't-miss thread and I thank you for it again.

Can't believe falllling showed his mug in here!