Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[timmmers]

We all bought an unrefined product did we? Odd, I didn't see those words or anything like that when I paid for mine.
Not in any of the back patting videos or interviews either.

We bought a miner that we were told confidently would have margins upon margins capable of 400Gh and even today no-one has said that this (and the oct 15th date) has changed. Except of course to up it to 550 on the site and most promos ...which currently is false advertising ..as the past 20 pages here bear witness to.

As for all this shite about power consumption...right now is that a big priority to get down? I'd rather have a hashing rig while it's making enough BTC to make a few quid power bill extra irrelevent..later on the power consumption will matter more but not initially compared to a working rig. As long as the PSU handles it, we can wait for a firmware fix to get it down. Hashing reliably without smoke is the priority for users.

The sarcastic tone of Oramas post amazed me, people using fans to reduce temps ..planking? It worked. How bizarre is that? More to the fucking point no-one was talking from KNC end despite much asking...so what else were people to do? "We have a specialist flying in and we'll get back to you as soon as we know something."  < see, took me 3 seconds to type that, and even some poor sweaty overworked KnC human could manage that surely?

The way to deal with trainwrecks like this isn't arrogance, sarcasm and silence ..it's communication and apologies and in many cases here where buyers have been so badly let down with multi hosted jupiters...fair compensation.

I wont deal with KnC again, nothing to do with the rigs, it's the denial and head in the sand stuff I can't be living with.

[crumbs]

Been away from the screen, as I was on this forum so late last night. Those who were around at that point know this. I've just been getting to grips and learning more about what components do what and when upon the board.

Been trying to catch up here, but am still confused as to the purpose of the opening of the casing and top loading of fans. It makes zero difference, it just appears to be a bizarre form of planking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planking_(fad)

The temps ascertained by the BertMod (great work that man), reveal the voltage regulator temps, and not the ASIC. The voltage regulators can handle in excess of 100 degrees Celsius - ambient (surrounding environment) - so blowing a fan on them is pointless.

you are talking out of your ass... get some more sleep.  There is endless proof to the contrary that lowering temp = better performance for long stable hashing.  You might be talking about 10 minutes which would be a long time compared to what my miner was tested before shipping

Going to have to agree completely. Lol. How does someone not put 2 and 2 together? More air movement/lower temps DOESNT have any direct relation with performance? Wtf?

And here he's correct.  If the VRM is designed to withstand 100 C, cooling it from 80 to 40 makes no difference.  

[Bitcoinorama]

Been away from the screen, as I was on this forum so late last night. Those who were around at that point know this. I've just been getting to grips and learning more about what components do what and when upon the board.

Been trying to catch up here, but am still confused as to the purpose of the opening of the casing and top loading of fans. It makes zero difference, it just appears to be a bizarre form of planking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planking_(fad)

The temps ascertained by the BertMod (great work that man), reveal the voltage regulator temps, and not the ASIC. The voltage regulators can handle in excess of 100 degrees Celsius - ambient (surrounding environment) - so blowing a fan on them is pointless.

you are talking out of your ass... get some more sleep.  There is endless proof to the contrary that lowering temp = better performance for long stable hashing.  You might be talking about 10 minutes which would be a long time compared to what my miner was tested before shipping

Going to have to agree completely. Lol. How does someone not put 2 and 2 together? More air movement/lower temps DOESNT have any direct relation with performance? Wtf?

There are dev boxes that have been running for hours. Temp matters if the chips are stressed, but by all means pay the extra cash for the additional elec costs 24/7

Or please apply .95 drastic power drop. Save your fans, and your elec bill.

Again Bertmod measures VRM temp, not ASIC.

[DPoS]

WTF?! How can one determine an issue they don't know is an issue, until it becomes an issue??

It is called testing.  Which was absent after taking off the 4 VRMs.   Why can't you admit that they should of tested that decision, found the issues that us customers had to point out, created the firmware, test it again, THEN ship with 4 VRMs?

And where are any testing results, metrics from .95?  Where are the before / after numbers?

[DeathAndTaxes]

If I have corsair HX850 PSUs for my miners should I immidietly change them or should I wait for official info?

I'd personally change bro. After their reset they supply peak current without ramping for approx 30 seconds is what I understood. That pops the cap, and so far it's the PSU that is most likely to cause this issue. Most other PSU's once reset gradually ramp current.

This makes 0 sense.  Are you saying that other PSUs ramp up the current over 30 seconds?  PC power supplies are voltage, not current, regulated.  There's overcurrent protection, but that just shuts the thing down & stops it from toasting itself.

Agreed.  Either he is misunderstanding (playing a game of telephone here) or it is just nonsense to shift the blame.

Power suplies don't ramp up current.
Power supplies don't force current.
A circuit DRAWS current.
If the circuit was damaged by drawing too much current then the circuit shouldn't draw so much current.

[rrrix]

My Jupiter is scheduled for delivery today. Of course I bought a Corsair HX850 - is there any *safe* way to use it, or should I not even plug the thing in?

What if I power on the HX850 and plug in the PCI-E connectors one at a time?

[arch]

Again Bertmod measures VRM temp, not ASIC.

The official firmware status page temp is also from VRM?

 HW status:

ASIC slot #1: 54.0 ℃
ASIC slot #2: 53.0 ℃
ASIC slot #3: 55.0 ℃
ASIC slot #4: 43.0 ℃

[Bitcoinorama]

WTF?! How can one determine an issue they don't know is an issue, until it becomes an issue??

It is called testing.  Which was absent after taking off the 4 VRMs.   Why can't you admit that they should of tested that decision, found the issues that us customers had to point out, created the firmware, test it again, THEN ship with 4 VRMs?

And where are any testing results, metrics from .95?  Where are the before / after numbers?

Because you wanted boards hashing ASAP, and got them.

[chrono030]

My Jupiter is scheduled for delivery today. Of course I bought a Corsair HX850 - is there any *safe* way to use it, or should I not even plug the thing in?

What if I power on the HX850 and plug in the PCI-E connectors one at a time?

Don't plug it in.  Go buy something else at your local electronics store.  It will pay for itself in 24 hours.  You do NOT want a downed machine currently.

Also - .95 seems to be working very well for me:

 (5s):585.5G (avg):556.7Gh/s | A:65024  R:512  HW:3533  WU:7784.1/m

[DPoS]

And here he's correct.  If the VRM is designed to withstand 100 C, cooling it from 80 to 40 makes no difference.  

Do you read before trolling???  the chips are rated for 100C not the VRMs

but even regarding the chips, just because it can work at 100C ...  oh never mind.. back to ignore

[chrono030]

My Jupiter is scheduled for delivery today. Of course I bought a Corsair HX850 - is there any *safe* way to use it, or should I not even plug the thing in?

What if I power on the HX850 and plug in the PCI-E connectors one at a time?

JESUS

I have absolutely no idea how people with this amount of experience find themselves buying these devices.  Really?

[DeathAndTaxes]

And here he's correct.  If the VRM is designed to withstand 100 C, cooling it from 80 to 40 makes no difference.  

Well it depends.  No device is fine at 99.99999C and then explodes at 100C.  The hotter a component gets the less efficient it becomes that means more current is needed and more current means more heat which means higher temps, which means lower efficiency .... and the cycle goes on. 

All the problems seem to be limited to the rushed "lets cut the number of VRMs in half" mid production modification version.  If the 4 VRM version (doing the job of 8 VRM as designed) is running at high load then even a modest amount of cooling could improve performance.  Not saying that IS the case just pointing out it could be.

[Bitcoinorama]

Again Bertmod measures VRM temp, not ASIC.

The official firmware status page temp is also from VRM?

 HW status:

ASIC slot #1: 54.0 ℃
ASIC slot #2: 53.0 ℃
ASIC slot #3: 55.0 ℃
ASIC slot #4: 43.0 ℃

Not on die, but on the PCB, underneath chip - temp sensor hence ~50 degrees celcius.

Really no desktop fans required, honestly.

[DPoS]

Because you wanted boards hashing ASAP, and got them.

Then why not leave the 8 VRMs on for that point??

why are you dodging that?  what was the main gain for everyone on taking off the 4 VRMs??   You could keep shipping with 8 until you tested taking off 4.. .how can you try to keep avoiding this logic?

[ElGabo]

Guys

0.95 is magic

from 500 Ghs to 560

from 25%HW error to 3%

Good job KNC

I made a good decision

 

[Transam808]

My Jupiter is scheduled for delivery today. Of course I bought a Corsair HX850 - is there any *safe* way to use it, or should I not even plug the thing in?

What if I power on the HX850 and plug in the PCI-E connectors one at a time?

Plug the PCI-E while powered on? Are you looking to fry something?

[timmmers]

WTF?! How can one determine an issue they don't know is an issue, until it becomes an issue??

It is called testing.  Which was absent after taking off the 4 VRMs.   Why can't you admit that they should of tested that decision, found the issues that us customers had to point out, created the firmware, test it again, THEN ship with 4 VRMs?

And where are any testing results, metrics from .95?  Where are the before / after numbers?

Because you wanted boards hashing ASAP, and got them.

A lot of people (even hosted) would barely agree with that if at all. A lot of people have got nothing at all.

[The Avenger]

We all bought an unrefined product did we? Odd, I didn't see those words or anything like that when I paid for mine.
Not in any of the back patting videos or interviews either.

We bought a miner that we were told confidently would have margins upon margins capable of 400Gh and even today no-one has said that this (and the oct 15th date) has changed. Except of course to up it to 550 on the site and most promos ...which currently is false advertising ..as the past 20 pages here bear witness to.

As for all this shite about power consumption...right now is that a big priority to get down? I'd rather have a hashing rig while it's making enough BTC to make a few quid power bill extra irrelevent..later on the power consumption will matter more but not initially compared to a working rig. As long as the PSU handles it, we can wait for a firmware fix to get it down. Hashing reliably without smoke is the priority for users.

The sarcastic tone of Oramas post amazed me, people using fans to reduce temps ..planking? It worked. How bizarre is that? More to the fucking point no-one was talking from KNC end despite much asking...so what else were people to do? "We have a specialist flying in and we'll get back to you as soon as we know something."  < see, took me 3 seconds to type that, and even some poor sweaty overworked KnC human could manage that surely?

The way to deal with trainwrecks like this isn't arrogance, sarcasm and silence ..it's communication and apologies and in many cases here where buyers have been so badly let down with multi hosted jupiters...fair compensation.

I wont deal with KnC again, nothing to do with the rigs, it's the denial and head in the sand stuff I can't be living with.

+100000
Totally.

[Bitcoinorama]

Because you wanted boards hashing ASAP, and got them.

Then why not leave the 8 VRMs on for that point??

why are you dodging that?  what was the main gain for everyone on taking off the 4 VRMs??   You could keep shipping with 8 until you tested taking off 4.. .how can you try to keep avoiding this logic?

I'm not dodging anything. They were an excessive margin that is of no use now, why would you not cut back on unnecessary components, when proven unrequited to perform optimal? Makes no sense. Why not add 4 extra wheels to your car because you can?!

[DeathAndTaxes]

Then why not leave the 8 VRMs on for that point??

why are you dodging that?  what was the main gain for everyone on taking off the 4 VRMs??   You could keep shipping with 8 until you tested taking off 4.. .how can you try to keep avoiding this logic?

Simple.  KNC chose to use an off the shelf power module.  This means rapid prototyping but it also means higher cost.  Those modules run $25 each.  8 per board means $200 per board in cost just for the power supply.  That is $800 per Jupiter.  If they leave 4 of them off that is an extra $400 in profit per unit.  1500 units @ $400 ea = $600,000.

There is absolutely no other reason to change the extensively designed, tested and fully operational boards right in the middle of peak production.