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Ermm...
Is there a point here? Can we get to it already?
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Nice sandwich!
Keep us all updated on it.
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so testing of the engines is taking a little longer than expected. Longer than expected? Really. we should be done testing the chip in the next few days. Wait a minute wasn't chop dice package test supposed to be done in 2 weeks? What gives? Been what 4+ weeks now or more. the packaged chips should be on their way to the testing facility Should be? though I don't yet have tracking numbers or confirmation of this. Does anyone else see the irony in no tracking numbers? I will be working on getting that today or tomorrow hopefully. What getting tracking numbers? 1 to 2 days to find out where the chips are? they will wire it up to the test harness and start conducting the full power tests to see just how far we might be able to push the chips and what their real world power consumption is. So they have not started testing of the chips in a "test harness"? Oh my and chip production continues? What if there is a problem? Let us review their original timeline estimates and comments for everyone from the October snapshot: Tape out August 2013 November / December Initial Shipping (Sold out) January / February Bulk Shipping Q When do the 28nm Monarch cards ship? A We've been in development for approximately six months. We're now in the final stage of the process which is wafer start at the foundry. However, we aren't shipping anytime soon. This is a Pre-Order product, so if you're uncomfortable waiting an indeterminate length of time for the final phase, do NOT pre-order this product. With that in mind, our current schedule is on track for shippments shipments to begin towards end of year. Here are the timeline milestones: Tapeout (Initialization of wafer production)
Foundry production takes 10 weeks
Bumping, Slicing & BGA packaging takes approximately 2 weeks
Initial shipments begin and ramp up to full capacity over the following 3 weeks
Since this is our 2nd generation ASIC chip, we're largely free of risk from the pitfalls normally associated with a new chip design. Testing systems, Bumping masks, Substrates & under fill engineering are all carryovers from our proven design so they're complete and ready for high volume production once the wafers are ready. The importance of this can't be overstated. Let us review. August Tape Out was a lie it wasn't completed until December / January? 5 to 6 months late.
Foundry was 20 weeks not 10 weeks.
Bumping Slicing & BGA packaging (testing) was estimated 2 weeks. We are at 4 weeks now and still not tested.
Initial shipments and ramp up to take 3 weeks. Ramp up must include testing of the packaged chips in the Monarch to establish stability. This will take 3 to 4 just on the testing and that is before production can start in earnest. Ok does anyone see any GLARING omissions in the estimates from the past? March? April? I suspect Q3 end of summer if you are lucky. We've been in development for approximately six months. As stated in their October website. So count backwards please with me. October September August July June and May 2013. They have admitted they started development in May 2013. Now let us count forward May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December, January, February. 10 months. Still no working chips. Still no working Monarch. Originally promised to ship in the bulk of orders in 15 weeks from mid October website claim. November (4 weeks) December (4 weeks) January (4 weeks) Bulk of orders were not shipped on January 16th or abouts... they still do not have working packaged chips. |
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How come they miscalculated their development time again. It being their 3rd generation miner I would have expected better.
Maybe it's their business model.
It's a good thing I didn't order from them again.
At this point it isn't miscalculation what it really is, is fraud. His lawsuit, filed in December 2013, accuses BFL of breach of contract, fraud, and negligent representation. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/http://ia700702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.2.0.pdfhttps://ia600702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.docket.htmlBut Flynn, Meissner’s lawyer, finds this explanation baffling.
“I think it’s pretty disingenuous to say it’s [Meissner’s] fault,” he told Ars. “If he had never e-mailed, what were they going to do? Were they the kind of people that were going to keep $63,000? It’s funny, the blame-shifting game they’re playing. I find it distasteful, the lack of responsibility.” Comment Section below the ARS Article puts it in perspective: shawnce Ars Scholae Palatinae about an hour ago
As others have said for a while...
Why build these things and sell them to others until such time as they are no longer net profitable for you to operate (factoring in the sale price)?
Lets see... build them, mine with them until closer to being outdated, and then sell/ship them.. oh I know... even better "sell" them (aka collect money), build them, mine with them until closer to being outdated, then finally ship it.
up ( +1 | +1 / 0 ) down 988 posts | registered Jan 17, 2001 |
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There is no over the top in warning people off BFL if they consistently lie about their own deliver dates and over promise on their miners specs. At what point do you simply let people lie cheat and steal money from others? I suspect even though many are somewhat happy that BFL locks up some hash rate the reality is that BFL is not affecting hash rate any more. Antminer, knC , Asicminer and others are building farms behind the scenes so it is doubtful the people buying Monarchs today would have any appreciably impact in 6 to 12 months time when they get their units given the the factory mining farms are really what is driving the hash rate vertical. The issue isn't that they are helping make informed miners more profit but rather their predatory and less than ethical business practices are damaging some lives by taking food off people's table and it is worth making a big stink to draw attention to the fact they are purposefully misleading customers and not following FTC regulations and most likely selling untested product in the US that should be investigated by the appropriate state and federal authorities in the US and EC.
Bottomline BCP is not ethical enough to admit his Monarch was a horrible investment. I suspect he continues to shill for BFL in order to get rebates or has been given a deal for hashing power from BFL if he continues to lie for them about the Monarch or to basically slander and derail threads with ad hominem attacks. Ignore is too good for BFL shills. Really these threads save new members money. For every lie BCP or Inaba tells they are found out and someone reads it and they quickly decide not to buy BFL. Anyone saying they support BFL at this point is likely paid off to do so.
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Nice work.
How much would you like us to kick back to you if we fab out your NF's... or should I PM you?
Well, you probably won't be the first or only one asking that question, so I guess it is appropriate to be here. The answer is - As much as you want or feel appropriate  Ideally a few bucks on the first several hundred boards would be fine, and in the bitcoin reality that may shrink even further with time. After all I didn't want to bog any manufacturer with fees - that's why I left it open source. If the designs worked for you - then feel free to cut a bit or as much as you like for us And of course - feel free to PM me and we can chat a bit more. Here is hoping those who have produced and sold these do chip back into your development costs. Really a shame if people do not support great designs and engineers like this that make projects that really work. Maybe if the BitFury chips come down to $5 a pop then more can be fabbed and people can help cover more of the development costs. Support your local Slide rule give genrously!  |
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I can't access their site from Indonesia. Thankfully.
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Note given the projects I have seen in the past and currently engaged in any PCB production / fabrication may take 3 days to as long as 2 weeks or more just to get all the parts for the boards.The actual fabrication, depending on the schedule of the fabrication company, should be very short possibly a single day at most a week for a production runs this small as Ntek has proposed.
Like I said above 1.5 weeks was really best case even when you have the ASICs in hand there are always a number of hoops. In my experience there are two reasons for this sort of delay. Someone else might already be using the fabrication line you need for your boards, or a few components can't found or are not in stock or it might be, however unlikely, a last minute redesign or upgraded bill of materials and gerbers in order to have a more stable design.
Even when you have everything in place there are always gremlins, delays at the plant so the 17th is pretty good if they can stick to that date. I wish you all the best hoping to see these units soon as well. We do need more builders and NTek might be a decent player in the marketplace if they can ship by the 17th. I would say even before the end of the Month in my opinion would be pretty decent given the time frames from start to end from Ntek's chip order being delivered last week to a finished miner.
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Shameful that fabricators didn't kick back a set percentage.
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Yawn.
You'll get it when you get it.
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Looks like some old core memory in a cheap Chinese screwdriver set box. Cheap that is definitely a design goal at BFL. |
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15 pages and 100's of notes... certainly the tip of the iceberg.
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Some good news out of Seahawkville. I'm making the adjustments to allow all three types of chip to run on the same board... needs a few more controllable regulators, some different coils, and a new footprint for the A1 - probably the hardest thing to do in the list. Spent today cleaning up the schematic, making the bill of materials consistent, and ordering the remaining parts that I had overlooked or added since three weeks ago.
Planning on Footprint next, then just wiggling it into the layout, and adjusting the high-current loops for low inductance. I will finish the layout of the LEDs, MCU, CPLD, and JTAG. If I get it done before the "shop" closing time, I'll take it down to the "shop" for a milled prototype, and use that to prove out the MCU, hotplug, and power controls before I send it off to the prototype fabricator, soon hopefully.
At that point, I'll spend that time getting the bringup tests written, and testing the new OS on the emulator. When the boards get back from the fab, I'll give them a once-over, and take a few to the shop to assemble (only partially, since they can't place the real fine- line stuff we're using with their old gear). Meanwhile, I'll have the parts kit completed (last few will arrive soon, suppliers are telling me), and I'll ship them all off to the assembler for a fast build of 4 or 5 demo proto boards.
It's getting close! - Lead EE |
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Nothing near a screw I hope some noted that in some of the units screws were touching components. Yes no doubt a failure without any additional "aid" might be the reason, but given what passes for QC and testing at BFL you have to ask don't you?
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What typically causes that sort of failure?
Glad you got it going with the self-RMA. Nice work.
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I've got some goodies too! :-)
Thanks Zefir!
Are you going to to an open source board design for it? I am considering that. But no promises yet. I have a little bitter taste left from the previous open-source design - which took a lot of work and energy to get it to its current and complete state, and I see a lot of people enjoying the benefits of it, except that I'm still paying the bills. And I still owe to the other people (including Luke) who did such an awesome work to get it to where it currently is. vs3. You are always welcome to throw some of your sweat into our project we'd love to have you.  |
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100 x A1 chips arrived just now in our Seattle EE's hands more than enough to build 2 complete Wasp Hive prototypes. First the Seahawks and now the chips Seattle is a great town!
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=278844.msg4911852#msg4911852Nice thread! Smiley
I bought 2 products from them and both died. One within 3 hours, the other within 5 days.
Wrong PSUs, products shipped to China instead of Europe, PSUs that die with electricity outage at home, etc. Very long story...
So far no reply to any of my mails... and my anger is increasing day after day... in the meantime the bitcoin difficulty is going up at supersonic speed and I've clearly lost the time I could have slightly covered the cost of the miners.
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You know something Bickski? Your problem is that you don't know anything about engineering or you wouldn't be saying this. Engineering has nothing to do with it, as this is a chip issue. no, its a BFL issue. what other mining hardeware out there need to do this? It is a chip issue? Chips are designed and engineered are they not? That was engineered by whom? Keep following the logic to the natural conclusion. You got a crappy chip or crappy unit designed and engineered by BFL. Ya it isn't an engineering issue at all. As noted what other miner do you need to use a fridge to get it working better? Laughable. |
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