Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

Let's see.

I want 5% of which market?

Bitcoin isn't a transaction processing network.  Bitcoin is money, and nothing else.

You mean it isn't a WoW asset trading platform?

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[NotLambchop]

...economics 101.

Not here, bro
This thread is where Bitcoin's crazies intellectual elite come to mate & lay eggs.  Feel free to marvel, but don't feed or disturb.
I'm gonna let you slide this one time 'coz you're new.

[uki]

Gold Collapsing. Bitcoin bottoming.

there were several events in the end of January /beginning of the February that were particularly gold-negative in the short term, namely, option expiration, massaged employment data. These plus the pace of the growth from the beginning of January plus the latest CoT data pointed for a corrective move in gold. Once $1230 was broken to the downside we are at the crossroads regarding the medium-term perspective. On the positive side is the historical trend, with 40+ years of data first four months of the year should be PM (gold) - positive. Let's how it resolves and if Bitcoin bottoming would be somewhere close to the gold bottom.

[NewLiberty]

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function.   that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

no, bitcoin needs to focus on the gold function,

money is worthless it just passes from one hand to the next. its not a store of value

since you're new here, i'll forgive you.  everyone knows that when i talk about Money, i mean Sound Money (fixed supply).

you need inflation to keep up with the growth of the economy. economics 101.

Let us know when you get to grad school.
Econ 501 would be a good place to start.
Or start here:
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/political-science/17-100j-political-economy-i-fall-2010/

[domob]

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else?  I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it.  But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%.  So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit?  How's that ever going to work out?

[lunarboy]

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else?  I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it.  But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%.  So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit?  How's that ever going to work out?

Nothing makes sense any more. Perhaps i'll nip over to sweden and get a couple of billion Krona loan then buy bitcoin with it.  

[NotLambchop]

^
From the article you quoted:
"The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate."
Are you a Swedish commercial bank?  If not, you're unlikely to get credit from teh central bank.  So now you know.

[bambou]

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else?  I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it.  But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%.  So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit?  How's that ever going to work out?

Nothing makes sense any more. Perhaps i'll nip over to sweden and get a couple of billion Krona loan then buy bitcoin with it. 

Feed the 1%
Bail in the 99%

[brg444]

^
From the article you quoted:
"The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate."
Are you a Swedish commercial bank?  If not, you're unlikely to get credit from teh central bank.  So now you know.

but that's the whole point 

[2_Thumbs_Up]

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else?  I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it.  But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%.  So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit?  How's that ever going to work out?

I don't think that is true. I tried to look up the details and from what I understand, the swedish central bank always uses the "steering interest rate" (reporänta), and either subtracts or adds 0,75% to the actual interest rates for loans, depending on which way the loan is going. So the interest rate for lending from the CB is -0.10+0.75 = 0.65%, whereas the interest rate for lending money to the CB is-0.10-0.75 = -0.85%.

I'm still not 100% sure though

[NotLambchop]

^
From the article you quoted:
"The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate."
Are you a Swedish commercial bank?  If not, you're unlikely to get credit from teh central bank.  So now you know.

but that's the whole point 

What?  That deflation (and, by extension, deflationary currencies) is a horrible thing, requiring lulzy stuff like negative interest rates?
Point taken.

[rocks]

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function.   that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

no, bitcoin needs to focus on the gold function,

money is worthless it just passes from one hand to the next. its not a store of value

since you're new here, i'll forgive you.  everyone knows that when i talk about Money, i mean Sound Money (fixed supply).

you need inflation to keep up with the growth of the economy. economics 101.

Printing money in any manner is effectively counterfeiting the ledger. There is no difference between creating fake gold coins to create artificial new supply or printing money to create artificial new supply.

There is a reason the constitution specifically mentions counterfeiting as a punishable offence in Article I, Section 8, Clause 6. It's a short document, nothing made it in unless it was a fundamental attribute for a functioning society. Only took ~130 years for the banking oligarchy to re-educate you and convince you that free candy was worth becoming a serf for.

[domob]

The race to the bottom continues.

Sweden cuts it's interest rates to negative 0.1% and starts QE

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/business/international/sweden-cuts-interest-rate-and-announces-bond-buying-program.html

The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate. When the loans are due, banks will pay back less than they borrowed.

Does that only sound crazy to me or anyone else?  I've already accepted the ECB's negative interest (i. e., fees) when banks park money at it.  But at least a loan is still at positive 0.05%.  So if I'm a Swedish bank, I'll just get a billion in cash, put it in my vault, pay back less and profit?  How's that ever going to work out?

I don't think that is true. I tried to look up the details and from what I understand, the swedish central bank always uses the "steering interest rate" (reporänta), and either subtracts or adds 0,75% to the actual interest rates for loans, depending on which way the loan is going. So the interest rate for lending from the CB is -0.10+0.75 = 0.65%, whereas the interest rate for lending money to the CB is-0.10-0.75 = -0.85%.

I'm still not 100% sure though

Yes, that makes more sense - so the article probably has it wrong.  This would be similar to the ECB's policy, then, and at least somewhat more sane.

[cypherdoc]

^
From the article you quoted:
"The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate."
Are you a Swedish commercial bank?  If not, you're unlikely to get credit from teh central bank.  So now you know.

that is precisely the problem and why Bitcoin is thriving amongst ordinary citizens.  no special privileges here.

[cypherdoc]

^
From the article you quoted:
"The decision means that Swedish commercial banks will be able to take out loans from the central bank at a negative interest rate."
Are you a Swedish commercial bank?  If not, you're unlikely to get credit from teh central bank.  So now you know.

but that's the whole point 

What?  That deflation (and, by extension, deflationary currencies) is a horrible thing, requiring lulzy stuff like negative interest rates?
Point taken.

you forget that it was inflation that caused this whole mess pushing into neg interest rates.

[NotLambchop]

we need to keep Bitcoin focused on the money function.   that is what distinguishes it from altcoins and Bitcoin 2.0 platforms and potentially SC's:

http://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

no, bitcoin needs to focus on the gold function,

money is worthless it just passes from one hand to the next. its not a store of value

since you're new here, i'll forgive you.  everyone knows that when i talk about Money, i mean Sound Money (fixed supply).

you need inflation to keep up with the growth of the economy. economics 101.

Printing money in any manner is effectively counterfeiting the ledger. There is no difference between creating fake gold coins to create artificial new supply or printing money to create artificial new supply.

There is a reason the constitution specifically mentions counterfeiting as a punishable offence in Article I, Section 8, Clause 6.

"To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current coin of the United States"
You know what the word "counterfeiting" means, by any chance?  In case you don't, here:

"It has been raining a lot recently. Quick thunderstorms and flash floods... lightning at night and fear in the afternoon. People are worried about electricity.
Nobody feels safe. Fires burst out on dry hillsides, raging out of control, while dope fiends dance in the rancid smoke and animals gnaw each other. Foreigners are everywhere, carrying pistols and bags of money. There are rumors about murder and treachery and women with no pulse. Crime is rampant and even children are losing their will to live."

I know what you mean...

[NotLambchop]

...and why Bitcoin is thriving amongst ordinary citizens...

[Odalv]

there is no need to have the webcam on

[NotLambchop]

^

[Wekkel]

Some people will be so embarrassed in 10 years.