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Author Topic: OFFICIAL CGMINER mining software thread for linux/win/osx/mips/arm/r-pi 4.10.0  (Read 5756986 times)
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slush
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October 23, 2012, 10:13:17 PM
 #7741

EDIT: To explain why I ask that, cgminer + stratum gets notification of block changes much faster than ever so it should reduce the number of stales. On the other hand, I have noticed that slush uses that as an excuse to ignore any shares that are returned from the previous block immediately once it has stratum notified you of the new block saying job not recognised, so to me it looks like stales on slush went up, not down, despite the potential advantages. I'm not sure how btcguild fares there.

Eh, I probably don't  understand what you're talking about. Can you explain it a bit? Are you reffering to error message "Job ### not found", instead of "expected" message "stale share"?

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slush
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October 23, 2012, 10:15:52 PM
 #7742

Yes that will be switching to stratum on startup. For a more objective test, try the latest 2.8.5, run for a while with your regular login details above (that will automatically switch to stratum) and then try running 2.8.5 again but this time add --fix-protocol to your startup. I'm wondering if users are losing out due to the way pools are implementing this and being very restrictive about how and when to accept stales.

There's no special restriction in accepting shares as stale. Share is rejected once another valid bitcoin block appear on the network, so currently sent solution cannot became a valid block anymore. But this is how pools works for two years already and it isn't related to Stratum protocol at all...

Edit: Some pools are "accepting stale shares", but they use it just as their marketing tools, because these shares cannot be used as block candidates. Basically accepting stale shares is robbing optimized miners and giving their reward to sub-optimized or broken miners, which may send a lot of stale shares and they're still credited for them. But AFAIK no current Stratum-powered pool is accepting stale shares...

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October 23, 2012, 10:23:21 PM
 #7743

Regarding Stratum Rejected shares:

If you have any network reliability issues you will get rejects due to that.
Reconnects always lose you shares.

Of course a difficulty change loses you shares too - which may happen soon after a reconnect.

In general I find I get about 54% of the Rejects per LP "(stale)" compared to Getwork.
That's a drop from about 0.35% to about 0.19%

These sort of Reject messages really suck also:
 [2012-10-24 00:06:07] Rejected 216df95a Diff 7/1 GPU 0 pool 2 (olddifficulty)
 [2012-10-24 00:06:08] Rejected 5af4e74e Diff 2/1 GPU 0 pool 2 (olddifficulty)

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October 23, 2012, 10:35:16 PM
 #7744

Regarding Stratum Rejected shares:

If you have any network reliability issues you will get rejects due to that.
Reconnects always lose you shares.

Of course a difficulty change loses you shares too - which may happen soon after a reconnect.

In general I find I get about 54% of the Rejects per LP "(stale)" compared to Getwork.
That's a drop from about 0.35% to about 0.19%

These sort of Reject messages really suck also:
 [2012-10-24 00:06:07] Rejected 216df95a Diff 7/1 GPU 0 pool 2 (olddifficulty)
 [2012-10-24 00:06:08] Rejected 5af4e74e Diff 2/1 GPU 0 pool 2 (olddifficulty)

That's interesting and a good point about reconnects. Your rejects went down when you moved to stratum which is the desired effect. With getwork, you are forever grabbing new connections and are allowed to continue working on previous work. However once you have to reconnect with stratum, all your old work is now redundant. So lots of disconnects would be expensive with stratum.

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October 23, 2012, 10:36:15 PM
 #7745

If you have any network reliability issues you will get rejects due to that.
Reconnects always lose you shares.

Yes, this is true. I was thinking about some solutions for resuming connections, but it is quite hard architectural issue (any reconnection can land on another backend, due to DNS balancing or HA setup on the server. This is issue even with getwork, but pools are doing some work arounds, but it has another issues (sticky http sessions leads to poorly balanced traffic, for example).

But as I understand, ckolivas referred to something else than reconnections. There's chance that I just don't understand his post.

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October 24, 2012, 12:06:06 AM
 #7746

cgminer paused again for me today.  I didn't see it until 8 hours later. Sad

that's the bad news.

the good news is I dug through the windows event log and found the video driver crashed right at the time it stopped.  I assume cgminer caused the crash, but it didn't recover from it, and it didn't crash, so I can't put it in a loop.

for now I went back to 2.7.6 on that machine to see if it stays unpaused.

M

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October 24, 2012, 12:14:33 AM
 #7747

cgminer paused again for me today.  I didn't see it until 8 hours later. Sad

that's the bad news.

the good news is I dug through the windows event log and found the video driver crashed right at the time it stopped.  I assume cgminer caused the crash, but it didn't recover from it, and it didn't crash, so I can't put it in a loop.

for now I went back to 2.7.6 on that machine to see if it stays unpaused.

M

Did you try Cgminer 2.8.5?

Also if the driver crashed, I doubt it is Cgminer's fault. Probably AMD's crappy drivers.

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October 24, 2012, 12:37:09 AM
 #7748

cgminer paused again for me today.  I didn't see it until 8 hours later. Sad

that's the bad news.

the good news is I dug through the windows event log and found the video driver crashed right at the time it stopped.  I assume cgminer caused the crash, but it didn't recover from it, and it didn't crash, so I can't put it in a loop.

for now I went back to 2.7.6 on that machine to see if it stays unpaused.

M

Did you try Cgminer 2.8.5?

Also if the driver crashed, I doubt it is Cgminer's fault. Probably AMD's crappy drivers.

cgminer works the cards pretty hard.  I don't recall having the problem until I upgraded to 2.8.4.  I'll try 2.8.5 this weekend when I'm around to babysit it.  I don't want it crashing again while I'm at my day job.

M

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October 24, 2012, 02:44:21 AM
 #7749

Will give it a go on the RPi
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October 24, 2012, 02:40:52 PM
 #7750

Will give it a go on the RPi

Getting driver crashes using scrypt with 2.8.5. Catalyst 12.10 with the inbuild APP SDK, fresh install. Card is a Asus 7970 DCII at default clocks. Bitcoins mine without issue. During the scrypt mining, I am getting graphical corruption, smal blue squares near window borders fwiw.

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October 25, 2012, 12:05:22 AM
 #7751

Did you try Cgminer 2.8.5?

Also if the driver crashed, I doubt it is Cgminer's fault. Probably AMD's crappy drivers.

cgminer works the cards pretty hard.  I don't recall having the problem until I upgraded to 2.8.4.  I'll try 2.8.5 this weekend when I'm around to babysit it.  I don't want it crashing again while I'm at my day job.

M

2.7.6 died as well. 

*however*

it tell me the GPU was sick and was trying to restart.  alas, it failed on restarting.  2.8.4 never told me that.

I'm assuming I have something else going wrong that's causing this.  Not sure what yet.

M

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October 25, 2012, 07:04:07 AM
 #7752

Did you try Cgminer 2.8.5?

Also if the driver crashed, I doubt it is Cgminer's fault. Probably AMD's crappy drivers.

cgminer works the cards pretty hard.  I don't recall having the problem until I upgraded to 2.8.4.  I'll try 2.8.5 this weekend when I'm around to babysit it.  I don't want it crashing again while I'm at my day job.

M

2.7.6 died as well. 

*however*

it tell me the GPU was sick and was trying to restart.  alas, it failed on restarting.  2.8.4 never told me that.

I'm assuming I have something else going wrong that's causing this.  Not sure what yet.

M
Still, a hardware failure is a hardware failure. Time to reassess your clocks, cooling, power or whatever else.

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October 25, 2012, 10:09:06 AM
 #7753

This night, crashed and ...  cgminer restarted!!! (windows xp). fine.

Thanks!  it works for me.
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October 25, 2012, 10:11:36 AM
 #7754

I rarely look at cgminer running, but last time I looked, I saw this:
Code:
[2012-10-24 12:04:00] Pool 0 communication failure, caching submissions
 [2012-10-24 12:04:03] LONGPOLL from pool 0 detected new block
 [2012-10-24 12:04:05] Share became stale while retrying submit, discarding
 [2012-10-24 12:04:05] Pool 0 communication resumed, submitting work
This was witnessed in 2.8.5; I actually saw it twice within 15 minutes (the second time there wasn't a share discarded in the few seconds after the longpoll).  The pool isn't great on connectivity, so the communication failures don't surprise me, especially just before a longpoll, however, I am curious as to whether or not cgminer should have said "oh, communication is working now" when it got the longpoll instead of waiting a second or two to check/determine communication was restored.  Obviously the share that was discarded would have been rejected anyway, I only ask because I wonder if there might be something missing/inefficient in the communication failure code.
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October 25, 2012, 11:00:15 AM
 #7755

2.7.6 died as well. 

*however*

it tell me the GPU was sick and was trying to restart.  alas, it failed on restarting.  2.8.4 never told me that.

I'm assuming I have something else going wrong that's causing this.  Not sure what yet.

M
Still, a hardware failure is a hardware failure. Time to reassess your clocks, cooling, power or whatever else.

I know.  I keep looking, haven't found anything yet.  I tell you though, I'm not going to miss GPU mining.

M

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October 25, 2012, 12:55:41 PM
 #7756

2.7.6 died as well. 

*however*

it tell me the GPU was sick and was trying to restart.  alas, it failed on restarting.  2.8.4 never told me that.

I'm assuming I have something else going wrong that's causing this.  Not sure what yet.

M
Still, a hardware failure is a hardware failure. Time to reassess your clocks, cooling, power or whatever else.

I know.  I keep looking, haven't found anything yet.  I tell you though, I'm not going to miss GPU mining.

M

It will get boring, troubleshooting is half the fun Tongue
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October 25, 2012, 12:58:41 PM
 #7757

This night, crashed and ...  cgminer restarted!!! (windows xp). fine.

Thanks!  it works for me.
Grin

Shame I didn't fix the actual crashes in the first place  Sad

Still, there is a workable solution till someone can debug windows Smiley

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October 25, 2012, 01:02:14 PM
 #7758

I rarely look at cgminer running, but last time I looked, I saw this:
Code:
[2012-10-24 12:04:00] Pool 0 communication failure, caching submissions
 [2012-10-24 12:04:03] LONGPOLL from pool 0 detected new block
 [2012-10-24 12:04:05] Share became stale while retrying submit, discarding
 [2012-10-24 12:04:05] Pool 0 communication resumed, submitting work
This was witnessed in 2.8.5; I actually saw it twice within 15 minutes (the second time there wasn't a share discarded in the few seconds after the longpoll).  The pool isn't great on connectivity, so the communication failures don't surprise me, especially just before a longpoll, however, I am curious as to whether or not cgminer should have said "oh, communication is working now" when it got the longpoll instead of waiting a second or two to check/determine communication was restored.  Obviously the share that was discarded would have been rejected anyway, I only ask because I wonder if there might be something missing/inefficient in the communication failure code.
We can't hold on to shares forever, even with submit stale being the default. Imagine a scenario where the pool keeps sending work but the server is borked in a way it won't accept work. Cgminer could get a backlog of work so large that it crashes due to running out of memory. So cgminer keeps trying to resubmit the shares only until it reaches the expired work criteria. However, if cgminer thinks it has found a block, it will hold onto it until it successfully submits it no matter how long it takes.

Either way, a reliable pool is the most important variable here.

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October 25, 2012, 04:51:47 PM
 #7759

We can't hold on to shares forever, even with submit stale being the default.
I understand that, you 've made that point to plenty of people plenty of times.  My concern was with the fact that the pool was marked as down while I received a longpoll.  My question is this: "should the pool have been marked up when I received a longpoll from it?"  Maybe the answer is no, in which case that share was destined to be discarded, but if the answer is yes, then I would think submission should have been attempted before it expired (or maybe it was, and that's why the pool wasn't marked as up?).
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October 25, 2012, 09:20:06 PM
 #7760

We can't hold on to shares forever, even with submit stale being the default.
I understand that, you 've made that point to plenty of people plenty of times.  My concern was with the fact that the pool was marked as down while I received a longpoll.  My question is this: "should the pool have been marked up when I received a longpoll from it?"  Maybe the answer is no, in which case that share was destined to be discarded, but if the answer is yes, then I would think submission should have been attempted before it expired (or maybe it was, and that's why the pool wasn't marked as up?).
Actually the issue is not whether cgminer has even flagged the pool as down or up at all because share submission is done asynchronously and ignores that flag. The issue is cgminer actually tried to submit it, likely numerous times, and it failed repeatedly till it eventually expired. The sign that it has failed to send is when cgminer says "Pool 0 communication failure". After that it keeps trying to submit, it just doesn't spam the logs with every attempt. Often pools get into situations where they can send getworks or longpolls and can't accept shares, or they can accept shares but fail to send longpolls and so on. That's the thing about the getwork protocol versus something like stratum; everything is done separately.

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