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Author Topic: OFFICIAL CGMINER mining software thread for linux/win/osx/mips/arm/r-pi 4.10.0  (Read 5478443 times)
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DutchBrat
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January 17, 2012, 08:16:40 PM
 #2961

On the BTCGuild thread we are talking about the efficiency of CGMiner for different users

I have 9 miners, all between 200 & 350 MHash, and on each and everyone of them the efficiency is between 10% & 20%

This is on 100K+ Accepted shares per miner, so should be statistically valid

I am not complaining or anything since my stales are on avg below 0.4%, just wondering if someone can explain the reasons why the efficiency is so different for different users

Brat

Why do you have 9 miners of 200 to 350 MH ea?  Do you have 9 rigs w/ 1 GPU each?

Low efficiency simply means you are requesting more work then you complete.  In case of 10% you are requesting 10 work units and only completing one.

Yes unfortunately I do, I have 9 rigs, 2 with 2 GPU's and the rest with only 1.

I know what efficiency means, was just wondering why it is so different for different people.
I have no idea what influences efficiency

Using mainly 5800's 2 6950's

I am using default settings, no overclocking, intensity 8

I am not worried about the Performance, was just wondering about the low efficiency
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January 17, 2012, 08:32:48 PM
 #2962

I haven't switched up for quite some time: still running Ubuntu 11.04 with Cat 11.6 and SDK 2.4 with no problems for 69xx cards. There doesn't seem to be any real consensus on improvements in software platforms, although SDK 2.6 now appears to be the bane of mining.

Is there any definitive improvement with SDK 2.5 over v2.4, or any Catalyst driver version greater than 11.6?

Also, does anyone else use Arch for mining?


I love Arch...mining with cgminer works great.

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January 17, 2012, 08:33:46 PM
 #2963

Well regarding over or undervolting cards
There is not really a easy answer, it all depends on how the card its bios is made.
I found my xfx and sapphire vapor-x cards not allow any underclock or overclocks besides the 3 steps programmed into the bios for the different power states programmed in the card
I had before some 5850 cards from asus who actually responded well to any overclock tool and settings where i could put in any value i liked, even which where much higher then factory allowed, so even though i set afterburner to allow voltage changes they simply refuse todo so

But the sapphire/xfx are not responding at all to any of the tools available (trixx, afterburner, adams tray tools) even the amd overclock tool crashes with the message no cards present. So i am stuck to be able to change only mhz on mem and core and thats it.

I have not read any people being able to flash these cards succesfull with asus top bios version so i kinda not dare todo so either.
Although i am sure these very well build cards could do much more with some slight overvolting

 
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January 17, 2012, 08:42:46 PM
 #2964

...
Yes unfortunately I do, I have 9 rigs, 2 with 2 GPU's and the rest with only 1.

I know what efficiency means, was just wondering why it is so different for different people.
I have no idea what influences efficiency

Using mainly 5800's 2 6950's

I am using default settings, no overclocking, intensity 8

I am not worried about the Performance, was just wondering about the low efficiency
Ah they're not your computers?
No one would run an extra 120+W per card on purpose Tongue
Maybe work owns them?

A work request represents 2^32 hash attempts (without using rollntime)
For a good quality 6950 on default settings (e.g. GB HD 6950 900Mhz/775Mhz = ~365Mh/s) it should take about 11.77 seconds to complete the full 2^32 hash tests.
However, if it should get any LP messages during that 11.77 seconds then (by supposed definition) all the work requests queued and being worked on will be thrown away and give no more results than what has already been submitted - thus reducing your efficiency.

A higher intensity will make that worse also since it increases how long the GPU is working without replying.
A lower hash rate will also decrease efficiency for the same reason.

If the pool does merged mining and is sending non-BTC LP's (i.e. more than just a single BTC LP per network block) to you, it will reduce your efficiency that way.

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January 17, 2012, 08:54:20 PM
 #2965

If the pool does merged mining and is sending non-BTC LP's (i.e. more than just a single BTC LP per network block) to you, it will reduce your efficiency that way.
This is the most likely reason.

If you want to increase efficiency (for the pool's sake, not yours), decrease thread count to 1 and increase scan time to say 115 seconds.

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January 17, 2012, 09:30:57 PM
 #2966

If the pool does merged mining and is sending non-BTC LP's (i.e. more than just a single BTC LP per network block) to you, it will reduce your efficiency that way.
This is the most likely reason.

If you want to increase efficiency (for the pool's sake, not yours), decrease thread count to 1 and increase scan time to say 115 seconds.
This sounds a bit wrong. The scantime would be understandable for a slower card that cannot do 2^32 in 60 seconds, but, for a fast card it takes seconds to test them all.

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January 17, 2012, 09:33:03 PM
 #2967

If the pool does merged mining and is sending non-BTC LP's (i.e. more than just a single BTC LP per network block) to you, it will reduce your efficiency that way.
This is the most likely reason.

If you want to increase efficiency (for the pool's sake, not yours), decrease thread count to 1 and increase scan time to say 115 seconds.
This sounds a bit wrong. The scantime would be understandable for a slower card that cannot do 2^32 in 60 seconds, but, for a fast card it takes seconds to test them all.
Increasing scantime will allow cgminer to roll the work for longer. Scantime affects rolltime expiration as well.

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January 17, 2012, 09:56:21 PM
 #2968

On the scantime and intensity topic.  Should scantime be increased and intensity decreased when mining on p2pool? I know it works a bit different than regular pools and on my 6950 rig where I usually have an E of 140% and U of 29.xx I now have an E of 4% and U of 3.45.  Am I overworking or underworking the cards?

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January 17, 2012, 10:43:06 PM
 #2969

On the scantime and intensity topic.  Should scantime be increased and intensity decreased when mining on p2pool? I know it works a bit different than regular pools and on my 6950 rig where I usually have an E of 140% and U of 29.xx I now have an E of 4% and U of 3.45.  Am I overworking or underworking the cards?
U is proportional to income ... directly ...
If it is now 1/10 over a long period of time - that's bad.
Edit: assuming a share is still worth the same amount ...

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January 17, 2012, 10:47:45 PM
 #2970

On the scantime and intensity topic.  Should scantime be increased and intensity decreased when mining on p2pool? I know it works a bit different than regular pools and on my 6950 rig where I usually have an E of 140% and U of 29.xx I now have an E of 4% and U of 3.45.  Am I overworking or underworking the cards?
U is proportional to income ... directly ...
If it is now 1/10 over a long period of time - that's bad.
No, changing to p2pool changes the meaning of everything. I can't directly equate the numbers changing from one to the other, but this is not bad. I don't know enough about p2pool to suggest how to tune it, but I suspect the cgminer defaults are best still.

Also note I wasn't suggesting people try to improve their efficiency since it usually adversely affects the miner... I was just explaining how you might go about it.

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January 17, 2012, 11:32:27 PM
 #2971

I'll buy your suspected defaults theory.  I've only been running it constant for 24 hrs (on defaults) but it looks like the reject ratio and payout are the same - short time to make that assumption though.  Just a bit odd looking at those low numbers and seeing 5 longpoll requests to every accepted share.

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January 18, 2012, 12:15:07 AM
 #2972

Increasing scantime will allow cgminer to roll the work for longer. Scantime affects rolltime expiration as well.
This is assuming you are on a pool that supports rolltime and allows it for cgminer by the way...

edit: Oh and decreasing -q would also "help" efficiency.

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January 18, 2012, 12:20:35 AM
 #2973

I will also add that the detection explanation seems extremely strange.
Whenever you plug a USB device into a linux system you see messages in dmesg about the identity of the device.
That information (however you get access to it) should be enough to know what it is shouldn't it?
Or are they not handling the USB connection with identity information like every other USB device on the planet I've plugged into a linux box?
It may already be obvious to you, but since no one else responded to this, and it seems rather obvious to me (granted, I only have a guess as they didn't state this in their post), I will.  The reason you have to query the device is because it is communicating through an emulated serial port (hence the /dev/tty# in *nix and COM# in Windows).  The benefit to that is there is no driver to maintain, dmesg will detect a new serial port for which most OSes already have a native driver.  If I am correct, they could have manufactured the device with a real serial port instead, but I'm not sure there would be much to gain from that.  One downside I just thought of, if I am correct, is that the usb devices per port/hub limit may not matter if the operating systems in question have a lower limit on the number of com ports they will support.
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January 18, 2012, 12:23:21 AM
 #2974

I'll buy your suspected defaults theory.  I've only been running it constant for 24 hrs (on defaults) but it looks like the reject ratio and payout are the same - short time to make that assumption though.  Just a bit odd looking at those low numbers and seeing 5 longpoll requests to every accepted share.
Yeah merged mining sux doesn't it ...
Edit: or is p2pool using that same bad design?

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January 18, 2012, 12:24:22 AM
 #2975

I'll buy your suspected defaults theory.  I've only been running it constant for 24 hrs (on defaults) but it looks like the reject ratio and payout are the same - short time to make that assumption though.  Just a bit odd looking at those low numbers and seeing 5 longpoll requests to every accepted share.
Yeah merged mining sux doesn't it ...
Actually he was on p2pool...

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January 18, 2012, 01:05:28 AM
 #2976

p2pool with merged mining for 24hrs and bitcoin only for 24 hrs...numbers were the same, but maybe too short timeframe for real comparison.  Why does merged mining suck? Doesn't the miner just hash what it's given?

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January 18, 2012, 01:13:40 AM
 #2977

... Why does merged mining suck? ...

You answered that yourself:
...Just a bit odd looking at those low numbers and seeing 5 longpoll requests to every accepted share.

A NMC block is much easier to find than a BTC block. Each time a NMC block is found, your work is being interrupted by a LP message. The current work and queue needs to be dumped and new work needs to be fetched. If your miner is slow, you might be interrupted relatively often.
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January 18, 2012, 01:17:56 AM
 #2978

p2pool with merged mining for 24hrs and bitcoin only for 24 hrs...numbers were the same, but maybe too short timeframe for real comparison.  Why does merged mining suck? Doesn't the miner just hash what it's given?
Merged mining increases longpolling frequency due to multiple chains experiencing changes, especially when the difficulty of one of those chains is significantly lower.  The negative effect on your mining is a bit of lost work per change.  It would actually potentially be a lot more negative it weren't for longpolling.
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January 18, 2012, 01:21:11 AM
 #2979

A NMC block is much easier to find than a BTC block. Each time a NMC block is found, your work is being interrupted by a LP message. The current work and queue needs to be dumped and new work needs to be fetched. If your miner is slow, you might be interrupted relatively often.

Relatively often is all relative.  NMC block is roughly 2.4x as easy.  That is an extra 1 to 2 LP per block.  When NMC merge mining was new it was more of an issue with 20 to 30 LP per block.

The LP gnar1ta$ was refering to (5 per share) had nothing to do w/ merge mining.  p2pool uses larger shares.  1 p2pool share ~= 150 difficulty 1 shares.  It also builds a share chain to continually recalculate reward split and roughly every 10 seconds a new share will be found by someone on the p2pool network and thus requires an LP.
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January 18, 2012, 01:38:40 AM
 #2980

The LP gnar1ta$ was refering to (5 per share) had nothing to do w/ merge mining.  p2pool uses larger shares.  1 p2pool share ~= 150 difficulty 1 shares.  It also builds a share chain to continually recalculate reward split and roughly every 10 seconds a new share will be found by the network and thus an LP.

Right, so if my work is being discarded roughly every 10 seconds due to an LP, shouldn't my scantime roughly match that to not waste so much work?

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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